# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 717
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14322 "2018-09-11T18:04:35Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I saw something in the news last night about this apartment building and they mentioned that the inhabitants use key fobs to open their doors and not keys. I didn’t understand what they were saying, but I’m not sure she actually used keys to open the door. Does somebody else’s fob let them into your apartment? I don’t live there. I’ve never lived in a place like that. But I imagine it’s similar to electronic keys that are handed to you when you check into a hotel. Or a card that you apply to a plate to get a gate to open for a private parking lot. So, she tries to use the electronic thingy. It glows red, instead of green or whatever, and instead of automatically thinking she’s in the wrong, she naturally suspects it’s the electronic thingy acting up. I’ve worked in enough hotels before, and had enough key problems from guests, that blaming the gadget first seems natural to me. The fob I use to push button remote open my condo’s gate is acting up, and I need to change it’s battery tonight. The point is, these things probably fail a lot, and therefore your first thought when it doesn’t let you in, might be that it’s a piece of shit, and not the WTF?! you would get when your mechanical keys don’t even go into the lock of your apartment. Another thing to consider, when evaluating everyone’s narrative to this point, is that Officer Guyger and her counsel have had several days to come up with this story. Counsel’s investigator (if her attorney is in the least competent) has looked to whether there were any videos of the hallway or apartment, any audio recording devices, and any witness statements: all in order to, in the words of one of my more pungent professors, “Figure out just how much we can lie.” I think blaming the victim here, if that’s what the powers that be are doing, is absolutely reprehensible. But not surprising. EDIT: Was the doormat there before the shooting? I’ve read where that’s uncertain. But yeah, if that was already there, then it’s another piece of evidence that she completely wasn’t paying attention to anything that an ordinary person would use to consider that they weren’t in the place they thought they were. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14323 "2018-09-11T18:08:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Will someone explain to me how parking on the wrong floor causes someone to push the wrong elevator button? There appear to only be 4 floors. The building might not have an elevator. I don’t know what the minimum number of floors you need to have an elevator, but the Metroplex is covered with 3 story apartment developments that don’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14324 "2018-09-11T18:40:44Z")
Going back to Baltimore for some news. [Baltimore Cops Carried Toy Guns to Plant on People They Shot, Trial Reveals](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xvzwp/baltimore-cops-carried-toy-guns-to-plant-on-people-they-shot-trial-reveals-vgtrn) > [@](#): > > Detective Maurice Ward, who’s already pleaded guilty to corruption charges, testified that he and his partners were told to carry the replicas and BB guns “in case we accidentally hit somebody or got into a shootout, so we could plant them.” The directive allegedly came from the team’s sergeant, Wayne Jenkins ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14325 "2018-09-11T18:43:19Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Clearing your own apartment, in the dark, by yourself, sounds like a really stupid thing to do. If she did hear Jean moving around, and still thought it was her apartment that he was ransacking, the thing to do is back off and call to get some friends over to help arrest the guy But then you won’t be able to legally shoot somebody. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14326 "2018-09-11T19:29:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But then you won’t be able to legally shoot somebody. She already got to experience that the year before, when she shot a guy trying to grab her Taser. Though I wonder what “he was trying to grab my Taser,” entailed? Did he get stuck with it already, and was grabbing at the electrode wire? Or was he fighting with her and tried to grab it out of her holster? No matter. For the vast majority of people interviewed after a self-defense shooting, they agree that the whole thing uniformly sucked. The cops in your face, retaining and talking to a lawyer, the cost, the fear that you’ll lose your job because of this, the even worse fear that you somehow fucked up and now get to go to jail, even when you know you did everything the right way. Very few who’ve been through it want to go through it again. I don’t know her, but I’d wager that she, like most police, like the cops I’ve personally known, isn’t bloodthirsty or is seeking to go shoot someone. She is in a profession, however that often requires that force be used to obtain compliance with her lawful commands. Rarely, that force can be lethal. They need to be cognizant of that possibility in order to do the job that we the citizenry have given them. Accordingly, they are in a profession that can have really big consequences when they screw up. Especially if they screw up with a gun. And they shouldn’t be shielded from those consequences because of the nature of their profession. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14327 "2018-09-11T20:13:11Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > When I lived in an apartment building there were plenty of times my door was ajar. Running in and out doing laundry, multiple trips taking things to or from my car, etc. > > And “not following verbal commands”? Seriously? In his home, minding his own business? The cop was lucky she didn’t get shot before she killed the dude. Guyver’s “story” keeps changing, doesn’t it. Fact: [https://www.commondreams.org/further/2018/09/10/dallas-cop-who-killed-guy-being-home-while-black-was-arrested-inexplicably-keeps](https://www.commondreams.org/further/2018/09/10/dallas-cop-who-killed-guy-being-home-while-black-was-arrested-inexplicably-keeps) she walked into the apartment of 26-year-old Botham Jean, shot him twice in the chest, and killed him. she said she mistook Jean’s apartment for her own, which was a floor below in the same complex. Weird, given he had a red welcome mat at the door (she didn’t) and presumably different stuff in his place, but okay. In an affidavit released Monday, she made several shady new claims. She said Jean’s door was open; she didn’t know it was the wrong apartment until after she shot him; she saw “a large silhouette” - cue myth of the big black dude - as she entered; and Jean “ignored” her “verbal commands” - in, lest we forget, his own apartment. At least two witnesses refute her … Given the contradictions in Guyger’s story, officials say she could face stiffer charges once her case goes to a grand jury. … ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14328 "2018-09-11T20:15:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Woman walks into the wrong apartment and shoots the occupant, and then only gets placed on fucking administrative leave?? > > You’ve got to be kidding me. That was my first reaction too. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14329 "2018-09-11T20:18:19Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Guyver’s “story” keeps changing, doesn’t it. No. [There is no story](http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/nation-world/ny-news-officer-accused-killing-man-wrong-apartment-dallas-20180911-story,amp.html). _Authorities did not release Guyger’s name or photo for days after the shooting, sending social media users on a mission to identify the officer. Wannabe detectives held up photos ripped from the victim’s Instagram that appeared to feature both Guyger and Botham as evidence of a relationship between the pair, but officials have denied they knew each other before the shooting._ There is only amorphous doubt. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14330 "2018-09-11T20:19:09Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Right here you lose the argument. We want the police to treat everyone fairly, not do stupid shit that gets certain types of people killed at a disturbing rate and not close ranks to protect the guys who do stupid shit. That is called “_hey, don’t be reckless assholes_”. None of us feel any “white liberal guilt”, we feel pissed at police officers (some them even black) who betray the public trust and behave like reckless assholes. > > But I guess you would not recognize assholery, it being your natural MO. At this point, let’s forget the “don’t be an asshole” part, I’d be satisfied with “don’t kill folks for no fucking reason”. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14331 "2018-09-11T20:24:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I have a cousin who’s a cop, and know a few others. I’m sure it’s tough challenging an ingrained workplace culture (i.e. the blue wall) that is justified as a life-and-death brotherhood, protecting itself against a public and society that doesn’t fully understand the risk and danger. But that doesn’t excuse decent people from the responsibility of trying to demolish an immoral and harmful system. > > And there are plenty of good cops who have tried. Serpico, for example. Every cop should be like Serpico. The ones that see bad things and stay silent are guilty of a very immoral sin. Correct, sort of. They lie and cover for each other and try to shift guilt to the victim. Too often. That is conspiracy and perjury, all too often. “Risk and danger?” if it’s so scary, **QUIT!** Too many cops and civilians are hiding behind that “I was scared” bullshit - from unjustified cop shootings, to “stand your ground”, to Zimmerman. All you need to do is say “I was scared” and you have a license to kill. Enough already. There are far more dangerous jobs - farming, oil rig roughneck, coal mining, Bering Sea crab fisherman, etc etc etc. And this particular asshole went to the wrong apartment, and killed the guy who lived there, JUST FOR BEING THERE. She should already be in lock up. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14332 "2018-09-13T01:06:04Z")
Some good news on the law and order front today: [Manhattan DA’s office drops more than 3,000 open marijuana cases](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-marijuana/manhattan-das-office-drops-more-than-3000-open-marijuana-cases-idUSKCN1LS2ID) > [@](#): > > Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance on Wednesday dropped more than 3,000 open marijuana smoking and possession cases dating back to 1978, saying the action would serve justice and address racial disparities in the prosecution of marijuana offenses. > > \ > > The district attorney’s decision applies to misdemeanor and violation cases in which a warrant was issued because the defendant failed to appear in court. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14333 "2018-09-13T16:12:13Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > She already got to experience that the year before, when she shot a guy trying to grab her Taser. Though I wonder what “he was trying to grab my Taser,” entailed? Did he get stuck with it already, and was grabbing at the electrode wire? Or was he fighting with her and tried to grab it out of her holster? > . That’s what this guy said: [https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/04/08/vo-full-video-south-carolina-shooting-unarmed-man.walter-scott-family](https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/04/08/vo-full-video-south-carolina-shooting-unarmed-man.walter-scott-family) ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14334 "2018-09-13T19:33:49Z")
And he ended up catching a 20 year sentence for being the piece of shit that he was. Yay for allowing not proven beyond a reasonable doubt allegations into sentencing. You can’t shoot them if the only reason you’re shooting them is because they’re running. Guyger’s previous shooting was around several other witnesses, I thought. I was just curious how it happened, and I wasn’t able to find anything besides, “he grabbed for my Taser.” No doubt it’ll be dissected ad nauseum when she get tried for whatever the Dallas D.A. feels they can prove. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14335 "2018-09-13T21:48:58Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Or she could have noticed the **bright red door mat** that she did not have outside _her_ apartment. or, after that, just not KILLED anyone. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14336 "2018-09-15T21:22:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You guys should go become cops. > > I’m only half joking. Walk a day in their shoes. I get the feeling you guys don’t even associate with very many cops. I do associate with a few cops. Not as close friends, but as acquaintances, clients, and as police as they do their jobs. I do not need to walk a day in their shoes to say that they should not be abusing their authority and terrorizing the people that they are paid to protect. Do you feel that you should have to walk a day in the shoes of a terrorist before you can criticize acts of terror? Everyone is the hero of their own narrative, so, if I were to walk a day in the shoes of these abusive cops, then all I would get would be rationalizations for their behavior, justifications for their abuse. What you are doing is defending cops being assholes, by saying that there are assholes everywhere, and that there just isn’t anything at all that can be done to prevent them from begin a badge, a gun, and the authority to use those as they see fit. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14337 "2018-09-17T23:59:53Z")
[Ted Cruz criticizes Beto O’Rourke on Dallas police officer incident](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/407045-cruz-criticizes-orourke-on-dallas-shooting): > [@](#): > > I wish Beto O’Rourke and Democrats weren’t so quick to always blame the police officer, always attack the police officer." ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14338 "2018-09-18T23:48:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Van Dyke’s partner, testifying under immunity, says shooting video doesn’t accurately depict what he saw [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/van-dykes-partner-testifying-under-immunity-says-shooting-video-doesnt-accurately-depict-what-he-saw/ar-BBNwtcS](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/van-dykes-partner-testifying-under-immunity-says-shooting-video-doesnt-accurately-depict-what-he-saw/ar-BBNwtcS) Let’s be clear about this. It doesn’t accurately depict what you THOUGHT or TELL YOURSELF what you saw. But it depicts what actually fucking happened. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14339 "2018-09-19T01:02:42Z")
Hey, you have to spend a day in his shoes before you can criticize the fact that what he saw is not actually what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14340 "2018-09-21T19:07:03Z")
[8 prisoners released, 263 cases under review after Florida deputy accused of planting drugs](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/09/21/judge-releases-prisoners-deputy-misconduct-probe-expands/1381596002/) > [@](#): > > A judge vacated sentences of at least eight people in state prisons and correctional facilities who were arrested by a former Jackson County deputy accused of ginning up traffic stops and planting meth on unsuspecting drivers. > > … > Meanwhile, the State Attorney’s Office said charges have been dropped against thirty-plus other defendants who were arrested between 2016 and 2018, when Wester worked as a patrol deputy for the Sheriff’s Office. One of the defendants was a juvenile. > > Hess on Wednesday said his office is reviewing a total of 263 cases involving Wester dating back two years. I hope life behind bars is an option for this asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14341 "2018-09-21T20:48:29Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > [8 prisoners released, 263 cases under review after Florida deputy accused of planting drugs](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/09/21/judge-releases-prisoners-deputy-misconduct-probe-expands/1381596002/) > > I hope life behind bars is an option for this asshole. In a similar case, though I don’t think Tom Coleman actually planted cocaine on the poor people he sent to prison, Coleman ended up getting 10 years probation and a $7500 fine. Which is nowhere near enough, IMHO. [Tulia, Texas - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulia,_Texas) under “Drug Arrest Scandal” has more information. > **[Texas undercover copconvicted of perjury](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna6827494)** > > The lone undercover agent in a sting that sent dozens of black people to prison on bogus drug charges was convicted Friday of one of two perjury counts. I wouldn’t get my hopes up for LWOP. “You’re not [a] cop. You’re little people!” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lru1Qxc1l8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lru1Qxc1l8) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=716) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=718)