# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 723
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14442 "2018-11-27T19:24:14Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Here’s a thought. Perhaps the first step should be ‘figure out who the shooter is’. It’s the first black guy they see with a gun. See? Easy! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14443 "2018-11-27T19:31:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It’s the first black guy they see with a gun. See? Easy! Or a cellphone that if you squint your eyes just right kinda looks like a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14444 "2018-11-27T19:48:07Z")
I think we have ample documentation to disabuse ourselves of the notion that we should _assume_ police officers are moral, brave or competent. At least, no more so than any other asshole on the street. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14445 "2018-11-27T23:39:27Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Let’s see what sort of wrist slap the Chief gets now. The slap is a 3 year sentence [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-police-chief-who-pleaded-guilty-to-framing-innocent-black-residents-for-burglaries-sentenced-to-three-years-in-prison/ar-BBQajCX?li=BBnb7Kz](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-police-chief-who-pleaded-guilty-to-framing-innocent-black-residents-for-burglaries-sentenced-to-three-years-in-prison/ar-BBQajCX?li=BBnb7Kz) > [@](#): > > “When I took the job, I was not prepared,” Atesiano told a federal judge Tuesday, according to the newspaper. “I made some very, very bad decisions.” 3 years…for ordering his officers to frame innocent black kids…so that his stats would look better… > [@](#): > > Atesiano’s attorney claimed that the men who had been arrested had a history of criminal activity. > > “They were no saints,” Richard Docobo told the judge Tuesday. Well, since the department has a history of framing people, that don’t count for much. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14446 "2018-11-28T01:10:38Z")
At the least, I’m pleased to see so many here agreeing with the Second Amendment Foundation that lawful gun owners carrying for protection shouldn’t have to fear the police. Nice to see such support in unexpected territory. [https://www.saf.org/saf-ccrkba-seek-national-dialogue-on-police-ccw-after-alabama-tragedy/](https://www.saf.org/saf-ccrkba-seek-national-dialogue-on-police-ccw-after-alabama-tragedy/) > [@](#): > > Officers responding to a shooting at the Riverchase Balleria Mall in suburban Hoover apparently mistook Emantic F. Bradford, Jr., 21, as the suspected shooter. Mr. Bradford had a carry permit according to his family but investigators have declined to confirm that. He had drawn his pistol and was fatally shot. > > “There are more than 17 million gun owners in the United States who are licensed to carry concealed,” noted SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. “In addition, there are untold numbers of legally-armed citizens in states where permits or licenses are not required for either concealed or open carry. In an active shooter incident, these citizens are well within their rights to act in self-defense or in defense of others, even when it means they draw a defensive sidearm but don’t immediately open fire. > > “Armed citizens have interrupted would-be mass shooters,” he continued, “sometimes fatally shooting the perpetrator before police arrive. This happened at an Oklahoma City restaurant, a Walmart in Washington State, and at a McDonald’s restaurant in Birmingham in October. > > “The likelihood that police may encounter a good guy citizen acting to defend himself or others has increased exponentially in recent years with the expansion of concealed carry,” Gottlieb observed. “We need to address the potential for mistaken identity fatalities so that good guys don’t shoot one another while the bad guys get away. This dialogue should include law enforcement and commercial firearms instructors, open and concealed carry advocates and experts on the use of lethal force. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14447 "2018-11-28T02:50:34Z")
This is the first I’ve heard of this one. [San Diego deputies charged with misdemeanor assault after father-son arrest captured on video](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-san-diego-sheriff-s-deputies-charged-misdemeanor-assault-following-n940796) > [@](#): > > The San Diego District Attorney’s Office filed assault charges Tuesday against Deputies Nicholas Morgan and Joshua Nahan for an arrest the men made on May 7 during a domestic violence call. It’s good that they’re being held accountable for their actions, but I still have to complain about the amount of time it took. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14448 "2018-11-28T06:46:35Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > This is the first I’ve heard of this one. > > [San Diego deputies charged with misdemeanor assault after father-son arrest captured on video](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-san-diego-sheriff-s-deputies-charged-misdemeanor-assault-following-n940796) Me too, and I live in San Diego. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14449 "2018-11-28T06:54:57Z")
Try watching the video in [this story from Milwaukee](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2018/11/23/milwaukee-crime-police-bodycam-video-details-shooting-unarmed-man/2091908002/) without punching your computer screen. This happened over a year ago. The video has only just been released. State law requires an outside agency to review shootings, but the police department decided to do its own investigation, and found the officers’ use of force “reasonable” because they believed the guy “was armed or was reaching for a gun behind an air conditioning unit on the roof.” So now it’s multiple-choice gun fear? “Hey, we were pretty sure that he either had a gun, or he was reaching for one behind the air-conditioning unit that was a good six feet away from him when he was shot. And if not one of those things, he definitely had a gun at home that he would have used if he could reach it.” Watch that video and tell me that he’s not bending towards the ground so that he can lie down and surrender. At least the victim didn’t end up dead in this case; just multiple surgeries and permanent partial paralysis in one leg. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14450 "2018-11-28T07:18:57Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Try watching the video in [this story from Milwaukee](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2018/11/23/milwaukee-crime-police-bodycam-video-details-shooting-unarmed-man/2091908002/) without punching your computer screen. That link sucks; it wants me to fill out survey to read the article. [This site doesn’t do that.](https://www.bet.com/news/national/2018/11/27/outrage-after-cops-say-jerry-smith-jr--shooting-was-justified-ev.html) Horrific story, and made worse because I know that the DA will never be charged with a crime, nor will anyone else involved in the cover up. And I’ll bet that at least 2 of the cops either aren’t convicted of anything or never have charges filed against them. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14451 "2018-11-28T13:56:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That link sucks; it wants me to fill out survey to read the article. [This site doesn’t do that.](https://www.bet.com/news/national/2018/11/27/outrage-after-cops-say-jerry-smith-jr--shooting-was-justified-ev.html) > > Horrific story, and made worse because I know that the DA will never be charged with a crime, nor will anyone else involved in the cover up. And I’ll bet that at least 2 of the cops either aren’t convicted of anything or never have charges filed against them. Wow. That’s horrible. A terrible shoot. Nothing in his hands, hands to the side, he was lowering himself to the roof when the cops fired. As mentioned above, he was quite a distance from the AC unit. It sure sounded like the cop came up with the AC unit excuse on the spur of the moment, and even he didn’t think it was plausible. The DA should be fired and the two cops arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14452 "2018-11-28T16:00:28Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > I don’t remember seeing this story earlier, but… > > [3 Florida Ex-Cops Sentenced In Scheme To Frame Innocent Black People](https://www.yahoo.com/news/3-florida-ex-cops-sentenced-203300264.html) Followup on this. [Former police chief of Florida city gets 3 years in prison for framing innocent black men](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/raimundo-atesiano-former-biscayne-park-police-chief-gets-prison-for-framing-innocent-black-men/) > [@](#): > > “When I took the job, I was not prepared,” Atesiano told the judge, the newspaper reported. “I made some very, very bad decisions.” Ya think? I can’t say I’m thrilled with a three year sentence or even the ten year maximum he was eligible for. But at least he’s no longer able to ruin lives. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14453 "2018-11-28T20:28:05Z")
There were oral arguments before the Supreme Court today in a case that might go some way to curbing the disgraceful practice of civil asset forfeiture in the United States. The case is [Timbs v. Indiana](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2018/17-1091), in which a guy was busted for selling four grams of heroin, and had his $42,000 Land Rover seized via civil asset forfeiture. A judge in Indiana sustained Timbs’ appeal against the seizure of his car, arguing that it was “grossly disproportional” to his crime, and an Indiana state appeals court agree, noting that the value of the car was more than four times the maximum fine for his drug offense. But the Indiana Supreme Court ruled against Timbs, refusing to extend the 8th Amendment’s “excessive fines” clause to the states. In today’s oral arguments, which you can read [here](https://ij.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/17-1091_1bn2.pdf) (PDF), the justices seemed to give the Indiana Attorney General a much stiffer grilling than they gave the petitioner’s Institute for Justice lawyer. There was also a nice little exchange that really exemplifies how many lawmakers see civil asset forfeiture as essentially an unrestricted ability to take anything they want: > [@](#): > > JUSTICE BREYER: Well, in your view, an in rem civil forfeiture is not an excessive fine, is that right? > > MR. FISHER: Yes, that is – that is true. > > JUSTICE BREYER: So what is to happen if a state needing revenue says anyone who speeds has to forfeit the Bugatti, Mercedes, or a special Ferrari or even jalopy? (Laughter.) > > MR. FISHER: There – no, there is no – there is no excessive fines issue there. > > \ > > JUSTICE BREYER: Now I just wonder, what – what is it? What is it? Is that just permissible under the Constitution? > > MR. FISHER: To forfeit the Bugatti for speeding? > > JUSTICE BREYER: Yeah, and, by the way, it was only five miles an hour - > > MR. FISHER: Yeah. > > JUSTICE BREYER: – above the speed limit. > > MR. FISHER: Well, you know, the answer is yes. And I would call your attention to the - > > JUSTICE BREYER: Is it yes? > > MR. FISHER: Yes, it’s forfeitable. > > (pp. 43-44) Here is the naked power of the state, in all of its greedy, money-grubbing glory. It is, according to this guy, legally acceptable to take a $2 million car for a minor speeding infraction. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14454 "2018-11-29T00:12:23Z")
Former Florida police chief convicted of plotting to frame black men for crimes to get the unsolved cases off his books. > **[Florida Police Chief Gets 3 Years for Plot to Frame Black People for Crimes...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/28/us/florida-police-chief-frame-black-people.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur)** > > The former chief, Raimundo Atesiano, ordered officers to arrest people without evidence to make his department look like it was successfully fighting crime, according to court documents. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14455 "2018-11-29T02:56:30Z")
Psst! [Post 14438](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21346659&postcount=14438) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14456 "2018-11-29T03:59:16Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Here is the naked power of the state, in all of its greedy, money-grubbing glory. It is, according to this guy, legally acceptable to take a $2 million car for a minor speeding infraction. Well yeah, and this is the problem with letting “legal” equal “moral” in someone’s head. I mean, for all we know, that guy could post here as **Bricker** , amirite? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14457 "2018-11-29T21:35:21Z")
> [@STLToday](#): > > 4 St. Louis police officers indicted on federal charges, accused of beating an undercover colleague. > > … > > Prosecutors allege that officers Dustin Boone, Randy Hays and Christopher Myers threw a 22-year police veteran to the ground and kicked and hit him with a police baton on Sept. 17, 2017, amid protests downtown that followed the acquittal of former police Officer Jason Stockley on a murder charge for the fatal shooting of Anthony Lamar Smith. The undercover officer “was compliant and not posing a physical threat to anyone,” prosecutors said. > > … > > St. Louis public safety director Jimmie Edwards, who called the officers “ **outliers** ” in a statement, said the four officers have been suspended without pay from the police force. > **[4 St. Louis police officers indicted, accused of beating an undercover...](https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-courts/st-louis-police-officers-indicted-on-federal-charges-accused-of/article_4a82d209-b3cd-565e-9a97-309cf1c2a5af.html)** > > Three officers accused of kicking and beating an undercover officer during a night of police protests, and another officer lied to a grand jury to cover it up, prosecutors say. …“outliers.” Yeah, okay. If it wasn’t an undercover cop that they beat up I suspect that this incident would never have seen light of day. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14458 "2018-11-30T03:12:43Z")
[Georgia woman spends more than three months in jail for possession of cotton candy.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/28/us/woman-jailed-cotton-candy-meth.html) Apparently the cheap drug tests used by cops in road stops are unreliable: Ms. Fincher’s cotton candy was thought to contain methamphetamine. Her bail was set at $1 million so she spent 15 weeks in jail. The state of Georgia finally got around to testing the cotton candy after 13 weeks, but it still took another 2 weeks to release Ms. Fincher. She is white, BTW; perhaps her arrest and long detention were to show that Georgia law enforcement practices equal-opportunity idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14459 "2018-11-30T03:51:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Georgia woman spends more than three months in jail for possession of cotton candy.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/28/us/woman-jailed-cotton-candy-meth.html) Apparently the cheap drug tests used by cops in road stops are unreliable: Ms. Fincher’s cotton candy was thought to contain methamphetamine. Her bail was set at $1 million so she spent 15 weeks in jail. The state of Georgia finally got around to testing the cotton candy after 13 weeks, but it still took another 2 weeks to release Ms. Fincher. She is white, BTW; perhaps her arrest and long detention were to show that Georgia law enforcement practices equal-opportunity idiocy. Nah, if she was black, they would have shot her right next to her car. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14460 "2018-11-30T04:35:49Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > I suppose I am what you would consider a cop defender. What I consider myself to be is someone who waits for investigations to be completed before deciding on who did what. The reason I think that way is because I was a detective in my younger days and have personally seen how wrong first impressions can be when investigating incidents that occur under chaotic conditions. Sometimes the conclusion jumped to turns out to be the right one. Its looking more and more like that in this case. But that doesn’t make reaching conclusions on insufficient information O.K. or correct. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. > > Likely, if the police had video in this case showing the officer acted reasonably they would be releasing it sooner rather than later. But even that isn’t enough to be sure that the officer acted illegally. In the wake the most recent mass shootings, police are being reminded that number one goal is to stop the shooter as quickly as possible. It can be a fine line between acting too hastily and waiting too long. If the cop in the case was indeed, “trigger happy”, then he should get whatever the law requires. However, if the victim this case did something (even accidently) that the officer could reasonably believe presented a deadly threat then what you may have is a tragic, deadly mistake. It is situations like this that call for literal split second decisions. The courts and the law realize the time pressure officers may be under and make allowances for that. If the cop was wrong, he was wrong. But let’s not convict him without hearing all of the evidence. There’s a pattern – things like this are happening over and over again (and have happened for decades and probably more than a century, but with far less coverage than the last few years), and usually the dead innocent guy, shot by police, is black. It should be overwhelmingly clear to everyone that many or most cops in America, whether due to their own biases or biases of their training, are more likely to see young black men as dangerous, all else being equal. They may be very decent and hardworking people who, in general, are significantly more likely to have an unconscious (or conscious) bias that makes them see young black men as dangerous. The only people who can fix this are cops and those who make policy that affects police behavior. Black people are just human – if many grow up seeing their brothers, fathers, uncles, cousins, and friends mistreated (or killed unjustly) by police, they’re going to see police officers, quite reasonably, as dangerous enemies. But in general, those in charge don’t see anything wrong. And in general, police institutions don’t appear to see anything wrong. They think everything is just fine, at least by their actions from a broad sense. Killing lots of young black men is the status quo, and has always been the status quo, in America. Young black men are seen as disposable, and their lives aren’t seen as valuable. Black lives matter. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14461 "2018-11-30T07:42:53Z")
[Witness contradicts police account of shooting of black teen](https://apnews.com/465995ba18144e8c8e0b608b069be9b1) > [@](#): > > A man who witnessed a Chicago officer fatally shoot black teenager Laquan McDonald testified Thursday that police waved him away without questioning him that October 2014 night and didn’t even bother to take down his name. > > Jose Torres, testifying in the trial of three officers accused of lying to protect the white officer who shot McDonald, offered an account that contradicts what the officers wrote in their reports. Torres said he decided to come forward with his version of events after he heard a spokesman for the police union on television telling reporters that McDonald “was lunging” at Officer Jason Van Dyke with the small knife the 17-year-old was carrying in his right hand. > > “I told my wife at that moment, ‘They’re lying,’” he testified. “I told her I had to say something. … It’s eating away at me (and) or the next few days, I couldn’t sleep.” > [@](#): > > Torres also testified in Van Dyke’s trial and repeated much of that testimony Thursday. Good on him for coming forward; that took courage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=722) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=724)