# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 726
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14502 "2018-12-04T21:10:49Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Not being wholly unencumbered by reflexive bias, that is not a statement I am comfortable making – especially when I hear used in a _thou doth protest too much_ kind of way by people who are obviously racists (of which I am **not** accusing you). Being fair skinned and blond, though, I have come to reject “white” as a description of myself, because that word gets used almost exclusively by people who I want no part of. That’s cool. On the rare occasions that someone accuses me in real life, I simply roll my eyes and say “whatever” :rolleyes: “Whatever” Hey, I guess I can do that here too 🙂 No worries 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14503 "2018-12-04T21:12:48Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Not being wholly unencumbered by reflexive bias, that is not a statement I am comfortable making – especially when I hear used in a _thou doth protest too much_ kind of way by people who are obviously racists (of which I am **not** accusing you). Being fair skinned and blond, though, I have come to reject “white” as a description of myself, because that word gets used almost exclusively by people who I want no part of. I agree with your unwillingness to declare that you’re free of racism - one of the things about bias and humans is that we can never be sure we are entirely free of it. But I understand that society sees me and treats me as a white person, at presumably they do you, so while I understand with the desire to reject “white” as an identity, IMO we must be cognizant of the unearned privileges and benefits we accrue and experience because of the category society places us in. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14504 "2018-12-05T01:12:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > IMO we must be cognizant of the unearned privileges and benefits we accrue and experience because of the category society places us in. Of course. No cop is going to look at me with suspicion. No one is going to follow me around a store watching to make sure I don’t steal anything. Today on the Metro, I sat down on a 3-seater, one with a woman in one seat and her purse in another. She moved her purse an inch or so, so I had more room to sit. I can’t even imagine how I would feel if she grabbed her purse and held it in her lap. Made me sad to think about it ☹ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14505 "2018-12-05T02:58:01Z")
The other night, I stopped at the reel&retch for a burger, and decided I wanted to eat it in my car, parked. So I found a corner of a small-ish parking lot that was kind of out of the way, because all the traffic noise was making me uncomfortable. After not too long, a constable showed up and said the business owners are not too happy with people sitting in the obscurity of their parking lot, because, I guess, crime might happen. It was a pretty cordial encounter – he already seemed to know too much about me – but it was one of the few times that I became blindingly aware of my ethnic privilege. If I had been some other race, I suspect the encounter would have been at least a tad more hostile. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14506 "2018-12-05T03:52:44Z")
There’s a little bar in my town mostly populated by Hispanics. I like to visit all the bars around because it’s fun to see a new environment. One night we (me, my cousin, and her boyfriend, who was black) went there and I just walked right in, since I know I can go anywhere because I’m white. THEN I realized her boyfriend might not be comfortable there, after we were already there. I felt sad that I didn’t think about what he might be thinking, and then sadder that it was even a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14507 "2018-12-05T12:01:50Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > There’s a little bar in my town mostly populated by Hispanics. I like to visit all the bars around because it’s fun to see a new environment. One night we (me, my cousin, and her boyfriend, who was black) went there and I just walked right in, since I know I can go anywhere because I’m white. THEN I realized her boyfriend might not be comfortable there, after we were already there. I felt sad that I didn’t think about what he might be thinking, and then sadder that it was even a thing. So, did anything happen, or do you just like to revel in your white guilt? If there was an issue, would it be the Hispanics fault, Or yours for being born white? Are there any black bars you wouldn’t feel comfortable in? Or biker bars? Does everything always have to be about race? What’s this charming story have to do with the topic at hand? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14508 "2018-12-05T13:37:12Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But how does being racist lead to that? Would they decorate a tree in their own house like that because they are racist? Maybe, but they decorated the one at work that way because they clearly see themselves as part of an occupying force. They see their job as protecting people from black people, not protecting the black people in the community. Overt racists displays like this reinforce that what they are doing is ok. Racists don’t see themselves as bad people and if you get a bunch of them together give them authority over other people and then don’t really provide any oversight of their behavior, they do weird shit like make a racist Christmas tree. Not only that, I swear I remember another such racist Christmas tree put up by police in another department years ago. I’ll have to look for that. By making a racist Christmas tree they are normalizing that which should be shameful. It’s a sign of how unhinged that community allowed it’s police force to become. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14509 "2018-12-05T15:46:19Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > A police station in Minneapolis decorated their Christmas tree with a Newport cigarette pack, a can of Steel Reserve malt liquor, police tape, empty bags of Funyuns and Takis and a cup from Popeyes Louisiana Kitchen. > Two cops have been suspended and the mayor is calling for them to be fired. > [Racist Christmas tree puts two Minneapolis cops on leave](https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/minneapolis-police-officer-put-racist-christmas-tree-decorations-will-fired-183728339.html) > [@madmonk28](#): > > … It’s a sign of how unhinged that community allowed it’s police force to become. Imagine the outcry if this had been in Montgomery, AL, instead of Minneapolis, MN. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14510 "2018-12-05T18:06:12Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Imagine the outcry if this had been in Montgomery, AL, instead of Minneapolis, MN. By whom? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14511 "2018-12-06T14:26:14Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > So, did anything happen, or do you just like to revel in your white guilt? If there was an issue, would it be the Hispanics fault, > Or yours for being born white? Are there any black bars you wouldn’t feel comfortable in? > > Or biker bars? Does everything always have to be about race? What’s this charming story have to do with the topic at hand? I was just responding to the story above mine. No, nothing happened. And no, I don’t feel uncomfortable in any bars, unless the patrons made it clear to me that I wasn’t welcome there. And no, I don’t have “white guilt” whatever that is. I simply felt bad for not recognizing that not everyone would be as comfortable in a place as I was. Something I don’t think about, but something maybe others, especially those who aren’t white, DO think about. It’s not that difficult to understand, really. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14512 "2018-12-08T03:11:52Z")
Here is a California Highway Patrol officer who killed a sheriff’s deputy–friendly fire: > [@](#): > > The fatal bullet that struck Ventura County Sheriff’s Sgt. Ron Helus during a chaotic shooting scene inside Borderline Bar and Grill in November was fired from a California Highway Patrol officer’s rifle, authorities said Friday. > > Helus was hit five times by gunfire from Ian David Long, 28, who was armed with a knife and a .45-caliber Glock handgun with a laser sight attached as he stormed into the Thousand Oaks business. > **[CHP officer’s bullet killed sheriff’s deputy who responded to Thousand Oaks...](https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-borderline-update-20181207-story.html)** > > The fatal bullet that struck Ventura County Sheriff’s Sgt. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14513 "2018-12-10T16:47:26Z")
[Video shows NYC police pulling toddler from mother’s arms](https://www.apnews.com/dc2801bde5e8423c85ab058bede17858). That pretty much sums up the story. > [@](#): > > Police are investigating after a video was posted online that shows a group of New York officers, one of them wielding a stun gun, violently yanking a toddler from his mother’s arms while arresting her at a Brooklyn food stamp office. > > A witness said a security officer confronted the woman, Jazmine Headley, who had sat on the floor of the crowded office for two hours because of a lack of chairs. Police were called when she refused to leave. > > The woman ended up lying face-up on the floor during a tug of war over the child. > > “The baby was screaming for his life,” Nyashia Ferguson, who posted video on Facebook under the name Monae Sinclair, told The New York Times . “The lady was begging for them to get off of her. I was scared.” The rest of the crowd was apparently also upset with how officers were acting, and let them know (and the police let the crowd know that they didn’t care what they thought). > [@](#): > > Other customers in the city office shouted at the officers. At one point, an officer can be seen on the video pulling her stun gun and pointing it at people in the angry crowd. “New York’s finest”, right? :dubious: > [@](#): > > A court document said the toddler was just under 18 months old. A family member was taking care of the child, authorities said. [The (very disturbing) video is here](https://www.facebook.com/nyashia.ferguson/videos/2165023130216850/). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14514 "2018-12-10T17:13:42Z")
Based on conversations with ex-cops, they’re taught that backing down for any reason at all is a sign of weakness, thus putting them at risk, and thus it’s wiser to continue on with an unwise confrontation than to back down. Sounds incredibly stupid. But if that’s still taught, that would explain a lot of these utterly abominable interactions like the toddler-assault. And I think it’s based on an “us vs them” mentality rather than a “we are part of the community, and serve the community” mindset. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14515 "2018-12-10T17:17:44Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Video shows NYC police pulling toddler from mother’s arms](https://www.apnews.com/dc2801bde5e8423c85ab058bede17858). That pretty much sums up the story.The rest of the crowd was apparently also upset with how officers were acting, and let them know (and the police let the crowd know that they didn’t care what they thought).“New York’s finest”, right? :dubious:[The (very disturbing) video is here](https://www.facebook.com/nyashia.ferguson/videos/2165023130216850/). Not sure about this one. I cannot imagine a scenario where you can continue to hold a baby while being arrested. Drawing the taser seems dangerous though. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14516 "2018-12-10T17:45:31Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Not sure about this one. I cannot imagine a scenario where you can continue to hold a baby while being arrested. > > Drawing the taser seems dangerous though. Think about this a bit more critically, please. What was the crime she was being arrested for? For sitting on the floor? When there were no more chairs? The police failed and failed utterly. A few questions and answers would have shown that this was not a situation that deserved the police being called and the cops should have moved on. The security officer and the police created this situation; it’s their fault. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14517 "2018-12-10T17:52:20Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Not sure about this one. I cannot imagine a scenario where you can continue to hold a baby while being arrested. > > Drawing the taser seems dangerous though. Civilians don’t get training on how to be arrested, so acting in an irrational or sub-optimal manner is to be expected and somewhat excusable given the stressful circumstances. Police officers, on the other hand, do get training in how to arrest civilians. That training should include the high possibility the arrestee will behave in such an irrational manner. Sub-optimal behaviour by the arresting officers is NOT excusable. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14518 "2018-12-10T18:42:20Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Think about this a bit more critically, please. > > What was the crime she was being arrested for? The story says that she had an outstanding warrant in NJ. For what it does not say, and it does not seem to imply that the officers knew about that. She was being arrested for being in the way. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14519 "2018-12-10T20:12:35Z")
[Supreme Court says “suck it up, Choctaw County and Sheriff Terry Park; you done fucked up”](https://www.apnews.com/1dccadc5bf83408b9f2e59b770bb65df)! > [@](#): > > The court’s order on Monday leaves in place a federal judge’s ruling that Choctaw County and its sheriff are liable for violating the woman’s constitutional rights. A jury trial to determine damages is scheduled for March. > > The woman was held for 96 days before she was given the opportunity to post bail. She had been arrested on traffic charges and was then served with a drug indictment. > > A survey of Mississippi jails released this year found 2,500 defendants jailed before trial have been in custody 90 or more consecutive days. More than 600 defendants have been in jail longer than a year. In America. Imagine being in jail for a year _waiting for a trial_ on a traffic offense or a minor drug possession charge or something similar. In the land of the free and the home of the brave. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14520 "2018-12-10T20:20:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Supreme Court says “suck it up, Choctaw County and Sheriff Terry Park; you done fucked up”](https://www.apnews.com/1dccadc5bf83408b9f2e59b770bb65df)!In America. Imagine being in jail for a year _waiting for a trial_ on a traffic offense or a minor drug possession charge or something similar. In the land of the free and the home of the brave. Whoops! Wrong Choctaw County! Sorry, Sheriff Park! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14521 "2018-12-11T15:33:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Based on conversations with ex-cops, they’re taught that backing down for any reason at all is a sign of weakness, thus putting them at risk, and thus it’s wiser to continue on with an unwise confrontation than to back down. > > Sounds incredibly stupid. But if that’s still taught, that would explain a lot of these utterly abominable interactions like the toddler-assault. And I think it’s based on an “us vs them” mentality rather than a “we are part of the community, and serve the community” mindset. And that becomes a problem when they run into people who have lived fairly hard or marginalized lives where they too are in situations where backing down can be fatal. You end up having two parties who refuse to de-escalate, and can only increase tensions. Nothing good comes from this. Police need to have training on how to back off and lower tensions, on how to de-escalate a situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=725) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=727)