# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1441 "2015-04-04T03:58:32Z")
You can’t intentionally or negligently shoot sleeping children. You can quite legally do so if it’s neither of those things. I really don’t understand why people have to think that things like this are vast conspiracies to let people get away with murdering children, rather than tragic accidents. But then, I don’t understand the conspiracy theory mindset generally. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1442 "2015-04-04T04:33:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You can’t intentionally or negligently shoot sleeping children. You can quite legally do so if it’s neither of those things. > > I really don’t understand why people have to think that things like this are vast conspiracies to let people get away with murdering children, rather than tragic accidents. But then, I don’t understand the conspiracy theory mindset generally. What vast conspiracy are you talking about? The system itself encourages, aids, and protects prosecutor and police misconduct. That doesn’t mean there’s some vast conspiracy. That just means it’s not a good system. Police unions do function as a conspiracy, though, often after the fact. That cop that accidentally shot the guy in the Brooklyn housing project called his union rep before doing anything else immediately after the shooting. Not his boss, not an ambulance. That’s so far from OK that I think it’sgood evidence of negligent homicide in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1443 "2015-04-04T04:34:52Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You can’t intentionally or negligently shoot sleeping children. You can quite legally do so if it’s neither of those things. > > I really don’t understand why people have to think that things like this are vast conspiracies to let people get away with murdering children, rather than tragic accidents. But then, I don’t understand the conspiracy theory mindset generally. It must be nice to live in a place where you don’t have to fear the police. Tell me about that. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1444 "2015-04-04T04:57:42Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > It must be nice to live in a place where you don’t have to fear the police. Tell me about that. Well yes, it is. But nothing I’ve read in this thread or elsewhere makes me thing that there’d be any reason for me to fear the police in America either. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1445 "2015-04-04T08:14:53Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Tell me how shooting a sleeping child is legal. That’s negligent homicide in a sane world. Tell me how it’s “murder in cold blood”. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1446 "2015-04-04T13:00:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Tell me how it’s “murder in cold blood”. Get help, please, dude. Your responses are indicative of severe emotional problems. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1447 "2015-04-04T13:17:05Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > And destroyed any remaining faith any black person in Detroit might have had in the local criminal justice system. You can’t just shoot sleeping children. People don’t like it, it seems. It also looks like that cop still has his job. That’s sickening. It’s worth noting that prosecutor [Kym Worthy](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kym_Worthy) is a black woman. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1448 "2015-04-04T15:35:23Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Get help, please, dude. Your responses are indicative of severe emotional problems. Are you so absolutely certain that your worldview is the only correct one, and so self-evidently right, that anyone who disagrees with you _must_ be mentally ill? Or do you simply not have any proof that the police intentionally and maliciously intended to kill a sleeping child? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1449 "2015-04-04T17:02:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Are you so absolutely certain that your worldview is the only correct one, and so self-evidently right, that anyone who disagrees with you _must_ be mentally ill? No, just you. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1450 "2015-04-04T17:06:37Z")
Technically speaking a killing made in fear, panic, and recklessness is not really the same as killing in cold blood. So, I’d have to examine the circumstances more closely to decide which one it was. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1451 "2015-04-04T17:24:28Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Technically speaking a killing made in fear, panic, and recklessness is not really the same as killing in cold blood. So, I’d have to examine the circumstances more closely to decide which one it was. There’s no “technically” about it. Killing in “cold blood” has some definite implications regarding intent and circumstances. Anybody who uses in “cold blood” willy nilly to describe any death that happens to be unfortunate or tragic is a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1452 "2015-04-04T17:47:01Z")
Even a killing based on racial hatred is not a killing in cold blood. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1453 "2015-04-04T18:11:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Are you so absolutely certain that your worldview is the only correct one, and so self-evidently right, that anyone who disagrees with you _must_ be mentally ill? > > Or do you simply not have any proof that the police intentionally and maliciously intended to kill a sleeping child? I don’t care much if it was murder or negligent homicide. It was done to a child with my tax money, and that makes me responsible. Why don’t you get that? If you pay for something, you bear responsibility for the results. Good government is not achieved by the citizenry having minimum input into the behavior of government officials. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1454 "2015-04-04T18:12:18Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > There’s no “technically” about it. > > Killing in “cold blood” has some definite implications regarding intent and circumstances. > > Anybody who uses in “cold blood” willy nilly to describe any death that happens to be unfortunate or tragic is a moron. It was slight hyberbole. Go peddle your racist bullshit elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1455 "2015-04-04T18:16:20Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > I don’t care much if it was murder or negligent homicide. Well, if you don’t say what you mean… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1456 "2015-04-04T18:40:43Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You can’t intentionally or negligently shoot sleeping children. You can quite legally do so if it’s neither of those things. How can unintentionally shooting a sleeping child not in some way be negligent? Either there is some obscure grey area folded up in the eight dimension of the universe, or you need to go back and learn how this “English” thing works. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1457 "2015-04-04T18:59:02Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > How can unintentionally shooting a sleeping child not in some way be negligent? [Well, let’s look at the incident I assume get\_lives was referencing.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Aiyana_Jones) Short version; The police raided an apartment where a man who had shot and killed a high school senior earlier that day was now hiding, and during the raid, an officer’s gun discharged accidentally and struck and killed a child sleeping on the couch. The officer claimed that a woman later identified as the victim’s grandmother grabbed at his gun as he was entering the room and caused it to fire; the grandmother denied grabbing at the gun and her fingerprints could not later be identified on it. There were no other immediate witnesses to the shooting. The officer was tried twice for involuntary manslaughter and both ended in a mistrial due to deadlocked juries, and the prosecutor eventually dropped the charges. If events occurred as the officer says they did, then he is blameless and there was no negligence on his part. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1458 "2015-04-04T19:50:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [Well, let’s look at the incident I assume get\_lives was referencing.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Aiyana_Jones) > > Short version; The police raided an apartment where a man who had shot and killed a high school senior earlier that day was now hiding, and during the raid, an officer’s gun discharged accidentally and struck and killed a child sleeping on the couch. The officer claimed that a woman later identified as the victim’s grandmother grabbed at his gun as he was entering the room and caused it to fire; the grandmother denied grabbing at the gun and her fingerprints could not later be identified on it. There were no other immediate witnesses to the shooting. The officer was tried twice for involuntary manslaughter and both ended in a mistrial due to deadlocked juries, and the prosecutor eventually dropped the charges. > > If events occurred as the officer says they did, then he is blameless and there was no negligence on his part. If she grabbed the gun, then why were her fingerprints not found on it? Why would you default to believing the cop if her fingerprints weren’t on the gun? And that’s why I say you should be getting some help. That’s not a normal human reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1459 "2015-04-04T20:05:59Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > If she grabbed the gun, then why were her fingerprints not found on it? Believe it or not, it’s not particularly easy to leave an identifiable fingerprint on a metal surface, especially if the contact occurs during a scuffle. > [@](#): > > Why would you default to believing the cop if her fingerprints weren’t on the gun? One party was a sworn law enforcement officer engaging in lawful pursuit of a suspect in a criminal murder. The other was sheltering that murderer. > [@](#): > > And that’s why I say you should be getting some help. That’s not a normal human reaction. Well, since you’re apparently so preeminently qualified to judge what “normal human reactions” are, why don’t you just cut out the middle man and diagnose me with a condition recognized by the DSM-V yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1460 "2015-04-04T20:17:01Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > It was slight hyberbole. Go peddle your racist bullshit elsewhere. Racist bullshit? From billfish678? Where? I missed it. Most likely because it didn’t happen, but I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=72) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=74)