# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 736
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14703 "2019-05-03T20:32:15Z")
That doesn’t seem that controversial. The guy had a clearly recognized gun in his hand. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14704 "2019-05-03T20:46:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That doesn’t seem that controversial. The guy had a clearly recognized gun in his hand. Yes, but, presumably, he was in uniform. 😉 CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14705 "2019-05-07T13:20:09Z")
> **[Melvindale cop with checkered past escapes assault charge —again](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2019/05/07/melvindale-police-officer-checkered-past-faces-assault-charge/3643752002/)** > > Officer Matthew Furman, Melvindale's most lucrative cop who brings in more towing revenue than anyone in town, has been cited for excessive force at least four times. Another thug with a badge and gun. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14706 "2019-05-07T15:50:16Z")
[Sandra Bland’s family demands answers over new video of her arrest](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/open-up-the-case-period-sandra-blands-family-demands-answers-over-new-video-of-her-arrest/ar-AAB1nsP) I don’t think the video tells us anything new. The cops claim she hung herself in her cell…after being arrested at a traffic stop. :rolleyes::rolleyes:😕 What gets me NOW is the sniveling gutless prosecutor. > [@](#): > > The grand jury recommended no criminal charges in connection with Bland’s death, however, and prosecutors dropped Encinia’s perjury charge in 2017 in exchange for him giving up his credentials and agreeing never to work as a cop again. You ever hear the phrase ‘you can indict a ham sandwich’? Well, you can. But you have to _want to_. And they drop perjury charges in exchange for him _ **agreeing** _ to not work as a cop again. Like that should be on the table. “We won’t charge the babysitter for cooking and eating the child, but she has to agree to not work as a babysitter again.” Fucking coward. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14707 "2019-05-10T15:43:23Z")
[Why does a Kentucky Sheriff still have his job after second DUI arrest?](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/why-does-a-kentucky-sheriff-still-have-his-job-after-second-dui-arrest/ar-AAB5dyq) I give props for there actually being two arrests. Cannot help but wonder how many times he was stopped and NOT arrested because he was a cop. But it should be a simple rule. If you cannot _obey_ the law, then you cannot _enforce_ the law. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14708 "2019-05-10T17:29:44Z")
Sheriff is typically an elected position. Not sure whether the county government has the ability to remove him. Perhaps they can hold a special election, in which he would not be eligible to run. The result could be worse, though, as special elections are notorious for low turnout. (It looks like Breckinridge County has a population around 20K). ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14709 "2019-05-10T18:13:51Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Sheriff is typically an elected position. Not sure whether the county government has the ability to remove him. Perhaps they can hold a special election, in which he would not be eligible to run. The result could be worse, though, as special elections are notorious for low turnout. (It looks like Breckinridge County has a population around 20K). There is often a removal process: > [@](#): > > Removal From Office > IC 5-8-1-21 to 37 and IC 5-8-2-1: There is a general method for removing all public officials by impeachment. In the case of Sheriffs and their deputies, they may be removed from office for official misconduct. This usually requires a willful and malicious failure to perform official duties or conduct which makes the officer unfit to perform his duties. There are four specific grounds for removal from office: > Conviction of a felony while in office > Charging and collecting illegal fees for services > Refusal or neglect to perform official duties > Voluntary intoxication on duty or habitual intoxication > In the case of conviction for felony, removal from office is automatic upon pronouncement of judgment. In order to remove an officer on the other three grounds, it is necessary for the grand jury to present an accusation in writing and serve it on the defendant officer. The officer has 10 days to answer the accusation in the proper court. Failure to appear may cause the court to proceed in the absence of the defendant. The accusation will be decided in a jury trial using the same procedure as for a misdemeanor. If convicted on the accusation, the officer will be removed from office. Obviously, this will vary from County to County. I could not find anything for Breckinridge County, KY ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14710 "2019-05-10T19:05:32Z")
Would 2 DUIs count as habitual intoxication? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14711 "2019-05-10T19:30:56Z")
Probably not. But: _Conviction of a felony while in office_ \ _Refusal or neglect to perform official duties_ Was either of the DUI’s a felony conviction? And could failure to obey the law be considered neglect to perform official duties? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14712 "2019-05-10T19:42:16Z")
[Breckinridge County Sheriff Todd Pate indicted by grand jury](https://www.wdrb.com/news/breckinridge-county-sheriff-todd-pate-indicted-by-grand-jury/article_bafc61c0-6206-11e9-b17f-6f57a88a5147.html) > [@](#): > > The grand jury indicted Sheriff Todd Pate on four counts of first-degree wanton endangerment, one count of tampering with physical evidence and one count of operating a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Hopefully, he’ll be out of a job soon. ETA: The tampering with physical evidence seems to be a Class D felony in Kentucky. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14713 "2019-05-10T19:51:48Z")
Oh, and this is fun. [Sheriff charged with DUI stopped by local officer in the hour before his crash](https://www.whas11.com/article/news/sheriff-charged-with-dui-stopped-by-local-officer-in-the-hour-before-his-crash/417-ae6d56bb-3e9a-49f3-b6f6-99e41415b94c) > [@](#): > > A 911 caller reported Pate as a reckless driver about 40 minutes before his crash. A police officer responded, but let him go. > > According to dispatch records, the 911 caller complained of a male driver “asleep at the wheel” and said that driver was “all over the road” crossing three lanes of traffic and then “hit a curb” turning into the gas station parking lot. > > In the minutes that followed, Irvington Police Officer Crag Ball had a conversation with Pate and then let him get back into his car. Pate drove about 20 miles and then crashed, hurting another driver. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14714 "2019-05-10T23:11:21Z")
[http://https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/07/us/woman-gives-birth-jail-cell.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR1UtA8dXcp7IYoxIXqEiCPm-1wiUtUe1YeB7dQj\_gRglKggniCRR1OuiaE](http://https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/07/us/woman-gives-birth-jail-cell.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR1UtA8dXcp7IYoxIXqEiCPm-1wiUtUe1YeB7dQj_gRglKggniCRR1OuiaE) not only that, but ‘The baby is currently living with a family member, and Ms. Jackson hopes to reunite with her, Mr. Weekes said. Ms. Jackson is scheduled to be arraigned on May 8, when Mr. Weekes said he would request that she be released from jail.’ They took the baby off her and STILL kept her in jail ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14715 "2019-05-11T00:55:23Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > [http://https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/07/us/woman-gives-birth-jail-cell.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR1UtA8dXcp7IYoxIXqEiCPm-1wiUtUe1YeB7dQj\_gRglKggniCRR1OuiaE](http://https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/07/us/woman-gives-birth-jail-cell.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR1UtA8dXcp7IYoxIXqEiCPm-1wiUtUe1YeB7dQj_gRglKggniCRR1OuiaE) > > not only that, but ‘The baby is currently living with a family member, and Ms. Jackson hopes to reunite with her, Mr. Weekes said. Ms. Jackson is scheduled to be arraigned on May 8, when Mr. Weekes said he would request that she be released from jail.’ > > They took the baby off her and STILL kept her in jail I don’t see the controversy over her still being in jail? There are lots of people with children in jail. Now, I don’t think she should have given birth there, but assuming she was arrested/held for good cause, putting her butt back in jail once she was medically cleared seems justifiable. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14716 "2019-05-11T14:54:57Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Oh, and this is fun. > > [Sheriff charged with DUI stopped by local officer in the hour before his crash](https://www.whas11.com/article/news/sheriff-charged-with-dui-stopped-by-local-officer-in-the-hour-before-his-crash/417-ae6d56bb-3e9a-49f3-b6f6-99e41415b94c) From the linked article: > [@](#): > > WHAS11 asked Irvington Police Chief Brandon Brinkley if he thinks his officer made a mistake when he let him get back into the car in drive away. > > He said “we have nothing to hide. The officer did what he’s trained to do and the sheriff showed no signs of impairment.” > > The chief added “unfortunately, sometimes you miss things.” Yeah, right. The sheriff had a blood alcohol level of what .15 and somehow the police officer who personally knew him just missed that. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14717 "2019-05-11T16:06:07Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Yeah, right. The sheriff had a blood alcohol level of what .15 and somehow the police officer who personally knew him just missed that. Heavy drinkers (as one might infer based on 2 DUIs) tend to develop a tolerance (up to the point when the liver explodes). Numbers that seem high for a normal person may not be high for a lush. He very well could have been not showing observable signs of inebriation. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14718 "2019-05-11T16:10:11Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I don’t see the controversy over her still being in jail? There are lots of people with children in jail. Now, I don’t think she should have given birth there, but assuming she was arrested/held for good cause, putting her butt back in jail once she was medically cleared seems justifiable. She didn’t just give birth in jail; she gave birth by herself, in the cell, over 5 hours after jail employees knew she was in labor. The staff didn’t even call a doctor until four hours after she started banging on her cell door calling for help, and when they did call, the doctor didn’t get there for almost another two hours, by which time she was holding the baby in her arms. This is a woman with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. And, as I predicted when I first saw the link to the story, she was being held on a drug possession charge. It’s not completely clear, but from the way her case is described in the _New York Times_ story, it seems like she is being held in jail while awaiting trial. If that’s true, the most likely scenario is that this woman, who probably presents no public threat and little or no risk of flight, is being held in jail on a possession charge because she can’t afford the bail or bond that would be necessary to secure her release pending her court date. The bail/bond system in the United States is, in a large number of cases, little more than a penalty for being poor. In too many jurisdictions, poor people spend weeks or months in jail without having been convicted of anything, while people with money go home for the same or even worse crimes because they can afford the bond. And [here’s a story](https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/health/jail-births-wellpath-ccs-invs/index.html) about the private healthcare company charged with administering health care in the Broward County jails. > [@](#): > > A CNN analysis of federal court records over the past five years shows that the company has been at the center of lawsuits involving at least six different facilities. The lawsuits allege that pregnant women have been subjected to inhumane and dangerous conditions and treatment that in some cases have allegedly led to miscarriages and infant deaths. > > Public records also reveal how at least one county that hired the company found medical staff had given Librium, a powerful benzodiazepine, or tranquilizer, to multiple pregnant inmates. Librium’s label recommends against the use of the drug during pregnancy because of potential risk to the fetus. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14719 "2019-05-12T05:01:22Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Heavy drinkers (as one might infer based on 2 DUIs) tend to develop a tolerance (up to the point when the liver explodes). Numbers that seem high for a normal person may not be high for a lush. He very well could have been not showing observable signs of inebriation. Fuck no. The arresting officer had no problem identifying the signs of intoxication. Also, from the article > [@](#): > > Police said the officer heard reports of a reckless driver nearby, so he walked out to investigate. Once outside, he saw a vehicle matching the one described over dispatch and went to talk to the driver. That’s when the officer saw it was Sheriff Pate behind the wheel. > > According to dispatch records, the 911 caller complained of a male driver “asleep at the wheel” and said that driver was “all over the road” crossing three lanes of traffic and then “hit a curb” turning into the gas station parking lot. > > In the minutes that followed, Irvington Police Officer Crag Ball had a conversation with Pate and then let him get back into his car. Pate drove about 20 miles and then crashed, hurting another driver. You cannot believe for a second that had the driver been anyone but a LEO that the police officer wouldn’t have been suspicious of drunk driving. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14720 "2019-05-12T14:01:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Heavy drinkers (as one might infer based on 2 DUIs) tend to develop a tolerance (up to the point when the liver explodes). Numbers that seem high for a normal person may not be high for a lush. He very well could have been not showing observable signs of inebriation. **DesertWife** was a med-tech, generally the people who draw the blood sample on a DIU.\* One of the things they do when swapping war stories is mention their record draw. Hers was .43 and she mentioned one of her professors’ was .58 I blinked at her when she said that. “Isn’t that past the LD50 point?” “Yup; you have to work at it. He wasn’t even comatose.” \*It is considered a pain in the ass because of the whole chain of evidence thing. That’s why phlebs don’t do it, lacking the whole college edumacation. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14721 "2019-05-14T14:16:16Z")
[Baytown, Texas](https://apnews.com/8816f819dc2948eca957d2aa7ffbd6f7): > [@](#): > > A Texas police officer fatally shot a woman who police said grabbed his Taser and used it against him, moments after she seemed to say “I’m pregnant” in an altercation captured on video. > > The shooting happened late Monday in Baytown, about 25 miles (40 kilometers) east of Houston. > [@](#): > > Dorris said the officer, an 11-year veteran of the police department, opened fire after the woman grabbed the officer’s Taser and used it against him. > > In the video, the woman is heard saying “You’re actually harassing me” and “I’m actually walking to my house.” The woman is on the ground and appears to reach toward the officer when she seems to be heard saying “I’m pregnant.” Moments later he fires five shots, killing her. > [@](#): > > Dorris said police were aware of the video circulating on social media and that investigators want to talk to the person who took the video, because he or she was a witness to the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![KMS94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ad7895/32.png) [@KMS94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KMS94)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14722 "2019-05-16T19:58:56Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > … > What gets me NOW is the sniveling gutless prosecutor. > > You ever hear the phrase ‘you can indict a ham sandwich’? Well, you can. But you have to _want to_. > And they drop perjury charges in exchange for him _ **agreeing** _ to not work as a cop again. Like that should be on the table. “We won’t charge the babysitter for cooking and eating the child, but she has to agree to not work as a babysitter again.” > > Fucking coward. I imagine it is more laziness than cowardice. If the trooper was convicted of perjury, every case he had been involved in would be subject to review, and handling it this way the prosecutor doesn’t have to spend any time seeing if this trooper fucked anyone else over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=735) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=737)