# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 743
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14843 "2019-06-17T08:41:40Z")
Another group of cops who should be fired as all hell: [Cops at far-right rally in sacramento (featuring The Proud Boys, a fascist terrorist group) take off hats for national anthem led by neo-nazis.](https://unicornriot.ninja/2019/far-right-sacramento-rally-draws-small-crowd/) ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14844 "2019-06-17T18:14:10Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Another group of cops who should be fired as all hell: [Cops at far-right rally in sacramento (featuring The Proud Boys, a fascist terrorist group) take off hats for national anthem led by neo-nazis.](https://unicornriot.ninja/2019/far-right-sacramento-rally-draws-small-crowd/) Best I can tell, they took their hats off for the national anthem. Not exactly the same as supporting whatever the anthem-singing party stands for. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14845 "2019-06-17T18:35:12Z")
Yeah, unless they took their hats off for _Deutschland Uber Alles_ I don’t really get the outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14846 "2019-06-17T18:36:19Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > Best I can tell, they took their hats off for the national anthem. Not exactly the same as supporting whatever the anthem-singing party stands for. It was a tiny group of people breaking out in song off-key. Are you saying that they would do the same for any group? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14847 "2019-06-17T18:41:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It was a tiny group of people breaking out in song off-key. Are you saying that they would do the same for any group? Seems like a loophole that could be exploited to rob banks. Two or three members of the bank-robbing crew break out into the National Anthem. The cops would have no choice except stand their with their hats off until the song is over. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14848 "2019-06-17T18:56:43Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > Best I can tell, they took their hats off for the national anthem. Sung by a small group of _fucking neo-nazis_. If the cops aren’t there to make sure that these terrorists aren’t going to kill anyone, we have a problem. If they are, they have no business joining in. I think it’s not unreasonable to demand that the police avoid the appearance of being chummy with neo-nazis. Especially given things like Black Lives Matter and, uh, [this shit](https://www.revealnews.org/article/inside-hate-groups-on-facebook-police-officers-trade-racist-memes-conspiracy-theories-and-islamophobia/). You treat them like dangerous criminals (because by and large they either are or will be, because they’re fucking nazis). I don’t care if they’re playing the national anthem or hosting charity Barbecue - the cops have no business joining in. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14849 "2019-06-17T18:56:45Z")
17 or more white cops, and they didn’t just stop what they were doing to supposedly show respect to the national Anthem-They gathered together in what looked like a show of solidarity, unless you can believe that they all happened to be right there in that tiny area when the singing started. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14850 "2019-06-17T19:06:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 17 or more white cops, and they didn’t just stop what they were doing to supposedly show respect to the national Anthem-They gathered together in what looked like a show of solidarity, unless you can believe that they all happened to be right there in that tiny area when the singing started. How do they put it? “Avoid even the appearance of impropriety”. Maybe it isn’t cops standing in solidarity with neo-nazis. Maybe it just looks like cops standing in solitarity with neo-nazis, like they [often](https://www.dailydot.com/irl/neo-nazi-police-protection-pride/) [tend](https://socialism.com/fso-article/police-give-fascists-state-protection-a-strong-broad-united-front-can-break-this/) [to](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/05/antifa-charges-california-activists-stabbing) [look](https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/neo-nazis-march-in-berlin-with-police-protection/) [like](https://www.theroot.com/report-california-police-protected-white-nationalists-1822875581). It still _looks_ really bad. And that perception matters. (Seriously, in clashes between fascists and antifascists, cops consistently and constantly side with the fascists. This is kind of damning.) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14851 "2019-06-17T21:14:46Z")
> [@](#): > > [UNITED STATES CODE > TITLE 36—PATRIOTIC AND NATIONAL OBSERVANCES, CEREMONIES, AND ORGANIZATIONS](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2017-title36/pdf/USCODE-2017-title36.pdf) > § 301. National anthem > (a) DESIGNATION.—The composition consisting > of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem. > (b) CONDUCT DURING PLAYING.—During a rendition of the national anthem— > (1) when the flag is displayed— > (A) individuals in uniform should give the > military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the > last note; > (B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform > may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and > (C) all other persons present should face > the flag and stand at attention with their > right hand over the heart, and men not in > uniform, if applicable, should remove their > headdress with their right hand and hold it > at the left shoulder, the hand being over the > heart; and > (2) when the flag is not displayed, all present > should face toward the music and act in the > same manner they would if the flag were displayed. > (Pub. L. 105–225, Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1263; Pub. > L. 110–417, [div. A], title V, §595, Oct. 14, 2008, 122 > Stat. 4475.) When the U.S. Code mentions uniform, it is in the context of a military uniform – not a non-military police uniform. In the matter being discussed, none of the officers got it right. None of them were properly at attention (have a look at their heels and their arms/hands). None of them had their hand over their heart and hat at the left shoulder. Two had their hats on. One of them was using a smart phone, hopefully for good reason. My guess it that as desultory their presentation was during the anthem, they recognized that it would not be appropriate to be chatting and strolling about during the anthem, despite it being sung by bad people. How many of them are fascists I can’t say, but given the behaviour of the police in the USA when compared to other first world nations (not to mention the [highest incarceration rate in the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate#Incarceration_rates) with the possible exceptions of North Korea and China with its re-education camps – sorry folks, but you are not “the land of the free”), I would not be surprised if some of those officers sympathised with the people singing the anthem, but I also would not be surprised of some of those officers were disgusted with the people singing the anthem. All in all, I don’t think it is a good idea for officers at a tense situation where violence might break out to be grouped together facing the same way. I suggest that they should be keeping any eye on things, not just one thing. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14852 "2019-06-18T00:16:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It was a tiny group of people breaking out in song off-key. Are you saying that they would do the same for any group? Im not saying that. If I were saying that, I’d, you know, _say that_. Also, I , of course, have no way of knowing what these guys would or wouldn’t do. There are so, so many legitimate reasons for outrage over police officers’ (mis) conduct, some of which are outlined in this thread. To get worked up over this one, we have to impute motive. It doesn’t look great, sure. But it is more likely some knucklehead decided to “show respect” for the anthem, and the rest of ‘m made like lemmings. As some sort of sly show of support it is frankly to subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14853 "2019-06-18T00:43:52Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > Im not saying that. If I were saying that, I’d, you know, _say that_. Also, I , of course, have no way of knowing what these guys would or wouldn’t do. > There are so, so many legitimate reasons for outrage over police officers’ (mis) conduct, some of which are outlined in this thread. > To get worked up over this one, we have to impute motive. It doesn’t look great, sure. But it is more likely some knucklehead decided to “show respect” for the anthem, and the rest of ‘m made like lemmings. As some sort of sly show of support it is frankly to subtle. Saluting when neo-nazis sing is too subtle for you? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14854 "2019-06-18T00:51:14Z")
Did you see the movie, [_Taps_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taps_(film))? During the cadets’ hold out on the campus, every morning the cadets raised the national flag and the cops stood at attention and saluted just like the cadets did. I thought it would’ve been a perfect time to storm the campus; my father thought it was a great display of respect for the flag. Yeah, I know it’s a movie but lately reality is copying fiction more and more often, and bad fiction too, sadly.\* \*I’m not saying _Taps_ is bad fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14855 "2019-06-18T08:11:17Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > Im not saying that. If I were saying that, I’d, you know, _say that_. Also, I , of course, have no way of knowing what these guys would or wouldn’t do. > There are so, so many legitimate reasons for outrage over police officers’ (mis) conduct, some of which are outlined in this thread. > To get worked up over this one, we have to impute motive. It doesn’t look great, sure. But it is more likely some knucklehead decided to “show respect” for the anthem, and the rest of ‘m made like lemmings. As some sort of sly show of support it is frankly to subtle. I’m concerned that the police are increasingly aligned with fascists and neo-nazis. This is another example of that. The crowd contained members of a group (the Proud Boys) which are known to be violent neo-nazis. Again, why the police presence? If it’s for general safety, standing at attention for the anthem kinda defeats the purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14856 "2019-06-19T01:15:06Z")
[Costco shooting’s officer has an “evolving” story](https://apnews.com/583e534dc08a40c6ba38d69519bb293f): > [@](#): > > The officer’s attorney, David Winslow, told the AP on Monday that the officer was holding his 1½-year-old son when French knocked him to the ground and he briefly lost consciousness. > > “It wasn’t an innocent push,” Winslow said Tuesday. > > When he came to, Winslow said, “he believed his life and his son’s life was in immediate danger” and fired his handgun. So I guess his handgun was in his hand all along, right? He didn’t have to waste any time reaching for it or figuring out who was who after being knocked out: just start shootin’! And wow! How about his kid, the one in his arms? Didn’t the kid smack the ground? Or did he heroically dive under the kid as he fell, cushioning the impact? :rolleyes: This smells fishy, IMO. IME, when details start getting added to stories, it’s a flag. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14857 "2019-06-19T01:25:54Z")
:smack: Forgot to add this to my last post; I blame my kitchen timer: > [@](#): > > LAPD Chief Michel Moore said authorities are aware of one Costco camera that captured the incident and urged any shoppers who recorded it on video to come forward. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14858 "2019-06-19T02:30:15Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > :smack: > > Forgot to add this to my last post; I blame my kitchen timer: The cop was not arrested for this either. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14859 "2019-06-19T13:34:07Z")
[Last night Phoenix Police Chief Jeri Williams, Mayor Kate Gallego and others met with the public](https://apnews.com/e002f4ce79a149e2b2841d423dc480ba) at a church to talk about the Barbie Incident and to promise the public that there would be changes. She was not met with enthusiastic support. > [@](#): > > “Real change starts with the community,” Williams said to a sometimes hostile crowd comprised mainly of blacks and Hispanics. > > “Real change starts with the firing of the officers! Fire them!” one woman shouted toward the stage, where Williams, who is herself black, was seated next to Mayor Kate Gallego and other Phoenix city leaders. > > Appearing frustrated at times, Williams assured those gathered that the meeting would not be the last. > > “We are here to listen, we are here to make change,” she said. The couple at the heart of it all has called for the officers to be fired and spoke last night as well: > [@](#): > > Ames addressed the crowd briefly, drawing applause when he said he and his family were lucky to be alive after the incident. > > “No one should ever try to justify what happened that day,” he said. > > “We matter,” said Harper, holding the couple’s 1-year-old. Good for them for asserting their right to exist; it’s a shame they have to do it at all, tho. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14860 "2019-06-19T13:52:43Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > The cop was not arrested for this either. Talk about giving someone the benefit of doubt. This guy murdered one and seriously injured two others and he gets to walk away for now. If that Costco video doesn’t show all three attacking him, he better land in prison for a long time. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14861 "2019-06-19T13:54:24Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Last night Phoenix Police Chief Jeri Williams, Mayor Kate Gallego and others met with the public](https://apnews.com/e002f4ce79a149e2b2841d423dc480ba) at a church to talk about the Barbie Incident and to promise the public that there would be changes. She was not met with enthusiastic support.The couple at the heart of it all has called for the officers to be fired and spoke last night as well:Good for them for asserting their right to exist; it’s a shame they have to do it at all, tho. Yep - those assholes cops should be fucking fired as well. And I say “fucking” because it seems to be the only word these assholes know. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14862 "2019-06-19T16:49:35Z")
Start by firing the police chief. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=742) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=744)