# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 750
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14983 "2019-08-01T09:16:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Through other suitable means. The answer to every “no officer, I will not” shouldn’t be the infliction of excruciating, debilitating, possibly lethal pain. I wouldn’t tase a dog, even a stray dog, for anything less than a bloody, snarling attack. Tasing a person because they refused to sign an $80 ticket is way out of line. Tasing a girl because she refused to be quiet is way out of line. Tasing a person for refusing to walk is way out of line. IMO. She was not getting tased for refusing to sign a ticket. She was getting tased secondary to resisting arrest/assault on a police officer. He had already told her he was arresting her before she drove off, and after refusing to sign a ticket. Refusal to sign = you are getting arrested. No cop I am aware of is going to let that slide, ever. > [@](#): > > I’m just not into torture as a compliance tool, even when it doesn’t leave permanent physical damage. it is a few seconds of torture that leaves no lasting effects. Tasers are deployed because they are actually LESS likely to cause injury than physically overpowering the suspect or engaging with ASP or other baton type weapons. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14984 "2019-08-01T09:46:27Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Through other suitable means. Felony evading of the question. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14985 "2019-08-01T10:05:19Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > and calls 911 to say there's a guy with a gun. I think this guard overreacted to a very large degree. However local law enforcement has pretty much zero rights in an IRS service center and many other federal installations. He has no rights to carry his gun into the building. If they have a warrant to arrest an on duty IRS employee, they present it to security and security brings the person out to the police. I have several friends who have worked security at local IRS facilities in my town (there are IIRC 7 here totaling around 11K employees) requests from PD to detain IRS employees is a weekly thing for them. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14986 "2019-08-01T11:11:26Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > He had already told her he was arresting her before she drove off, and after refusing to sign a ticket. Refusal to sign = you are getting arrested. For a while there, I thought she was one of those sovereign citizen types. When a cop tells you that you are under arrest, “No, I’m not” are _not_ the magic words to cancel the “arrest spell”. As the expert commentator in the video put it, it was “lawful but awful on camera”. As to why the cop had his weapon drawn after the chase, there very well may be rules of procedure which required him to do so. Perhaps one of the coppers or lawyers on the board could weigh in on that. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14987 "2019-08-01T12:28:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m against shooting people, but tasering seems a good tool to use to gain compliance. > > How do you advocate law enforcement gain compliance? For a broken taillight? For a broken taillight, I’d advocate the “smile, wave, and followup letter” method for compliance. Or does that $80 ticket go away if the person doesn’t sign it? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14988 "2019-08-01T13:18:29Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > For a broken taillight? For a broken taillight, I’d advocate the “smile, wave, and followup letter” method for compliance. Or does that $80 ticket go away if the person doesn’t sign it? Well, I’m not a lawyer, but others in this thread have pointed out that if a person doesn’t sign the ticket they get arrested. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14989 "2019-08-01T14:11:35Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > For a broken taillight? For a broken taillight, I’d advocate the “smile, wave, and followup letter” method for compliance. Or does that $80 ticket go away if the person doesn’t sign it? Read my explanation above, in post #14971, of why you need to sign the ticket, and why signing the ticket is not just the legally required action, but also the smart thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14990 "2019-08-01T15:38:04Z")
The city of Chicago has a Police Board which is, according to [the city’s website](https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/cpb.html), “an independent civilian body that decides disciplinary cases involving Chicago police officers.” Apparently, the Chicago Police have been, [for at least six years](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-chicago-police-background-checks-20190724-stu2yjnygjbyjloycjcfmkerka-story.html), conducting secret background checks and other investigations into every member of the public who spoke at the Police Board meetings. > [@](#): > > The checks appear to be extensive, with police searching at least one internal department database to determine if speakers have arrest or prison records, warrants outstanding for their arrest, investigative alerts issued for them by the department and even if they’re registered sex offenders or missing persons. Police also searched comments that speakers had previously made on YouTube or on their Facebook and Twitter accounts, among other internet sites, the documents show. > > \ > > The American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois said the practice harks back to the Police Department’s shameful Red Squad history of spying on political and other groups engaged in activities protected by the First Amendment, a practice that ended with a landmark court settlement in 1982 but stretched back in one form or another to the 1920s. > > ACLU spokesman Edwin Yohnka noted how for years before the settlement was dissolved in 2009, Chicago officials had argued in court that the surveillance tactics were a thing of the past. > > “This suggests that that’s not true,” Yohnka said. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14991 "2019-08-01T16:00:14Z")
I can’t be arsed to find a Stormy Daniels thread, so I’ll put this here: [Police officers face discipline in Stormy Daniels arrest](https://apnews.com/dcc1a0a775154ce98e99f7a2a3b0ec8a). > [@](#): > > Five officers involved in Stormy Daniels’ arrest at a strip club last year face discipline for a raid that led to her being taken into custody, the Columbus police department announced. > > The department said Wednesday that the officers could face punishment ranging from a reprimand to firing. The officers include a commander, lieutenant, sergeant and two of the arresting officers, all part of a vice unit that was later disbanded. > > Daniels, whose real name is Stephanie Clifford, was arrested at Sirens in July 2018 on suspicion of inappropriately touching an undercover officer. Prosecutors dropped charges against Daniels hours later, saying the law cited in her arrest applied only to those who regularly performed at the club. > > An investigation into the arrest included a look at allegations that officers conspired to retaliate against the porn actress over her claims that Donald Trump had sex with her before he was elected president. > > Those allegations are included in Daniels’ federal defamation lawsuit for $2 million in federal court in Columbus. The lawsuit was filed in January against several Columbus police officers. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14992 "2019-08-01T16:31:38Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > For a broken taillight? For a broken taillight, I’d advocate the “smile, wave, and followup letter” method for compliance. Or does that $80 ticket go away if the person doesn’t sign it? > [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, I’m not a lawyer, but others in this thread have pointed out that if a person doesn’t sign the ticket they get arrested. > [@mhendo](#): > > Read my explanation above, in post #14971, of why you need to sign the ticket, and why signing the ticket is not just the legally required action, but also the smart thing to do. IMHNLNCO, the rationale behind why you must sign the ticket is, oddly enough, for your protection. Otherwise cops could just write a whole pad of tickets for grins and chuckles. Signing the ticket, as mentioned in this thread, and printed on the blame thing (and in my experience, mentioned by the ticketing cop) is merely an acknowledgement that you received the ticket. Also in my experience and gleaned from conversations with my aquaintances who happen to be cops, the cop will generally go with the verbal warning first before ratcheting it up to a written warning or ticket. That is, unless somwthing else is going on with you. Bitching out a cop generally isn’t conducive to keeping the incident at the conversational level. Driving off in the middle of the traffic stop and then assaulting the police officer probably won’t help either. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14993 "2019-08-01T16:52:47Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > I have several friends who have worked security at local IRS facilities in my town (there are IIRC 7 here totaling around 11K employees) requests from PD to detain IRS employees is a weekly thing for them. That seems kind of high. Are they generally for traffic ticket scofflaws or something more serious? Military bases are more stringent than your general government office buildings. Forty-five years ago I was gate guard for a week at Corry Field in Pensacola, a lot fewer than 11,000. I was told if the police are in hot pursuit of someone wave 'em on through and let our internal security sort it out later. If they come up with an arrest warrant direct them to the JAG office, rather like your IRS cases I imagine, but it was not handled at the gate. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14994 "2019-08-01T17:18:38Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Read my explanation above, in post #14971, of why you need to sign the ticket, and why signing the ticket is not just the legally required action, but also the smart thing to do. Yes, a bunch of lawmakers with their heads up their asses thought it was a good idea to require a bullshit, completely unnecessary step in the giving of a traffic ticket that exposes drivers to arrest. Nobody should ever be arrested because they didn’t sign something. Arrest people who represent a danger to others. Poor documentation should be treated like a document problem, not a criminal problem. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14995 "2019-08-01T17:31:43Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Yes, a bunch of lawmakers with their heads up their asses thought it was a good idea to require a bullshit, completely unnecessary step in the giving of a traffic ticket that exposes drivers to arrest. Nobody should ever be arrested because they didn’t sign something. Actually, if you get pulled over for a traffic infraction like a broken tail-light or speeding, and you refuse to sign the ticket, you’re not actually being arrested for refusing to sign. What you’re being arrested for is the traffic infraction. As the California link that I provided earlier explains, “If you refuse to sign the ticket the officer is required by law to take you into custody and present you before a judge for arraignment on the charges.” The charges, in this case, are the traffic charges, not refusal to sign the ticket. Basically, the traffic infraction itself is an arrestable offense. But because lawmakers and police departments understand that these offenses are relatively minor, and because they understand that it would be a logistical nightmare to bring every traffic infraction to court, they have put in place a system that allows you to avoid arrest and deal with your infraction at a later date - either by paying the ticket (and essentially pleading guilty to the offense), or by coming to court in order to challenge the infraction notice. In order to take advantage of this workaround, however, you have to sign your name in order to acknowledge that you have received the ticket, and that you will, in fact, either pay the ticket or come to court in order to challenge it. And, as **Monty** suggests, there’s a certain amount of protection for the citizen here too, because it prevents rogue cops from writing tickets that the driver never knows about. I’m not arguing that this is the best system. I’m not even arguing that it’s a good one. But it’s how things work in quite a lot of states, and simply signing the damn ticket would have allowed this woman to be on her way. Then, fixing the tail-light within 48 hours would have enabled her to have the ticket voided. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14996 "2019-08-01T21:27:16Z")
Here’s [a quick update on a case from 2015](https://apnews.com/38abab5e04ce42c5a6d5897d38bf4e04): > [@](#): > > A court on Thursday upheld the rape and sexual assault convictions and 263-year prison sentence of a former Oklahoma City police officer whose case has been watched closely by the Black Lives Matter movement and some conservatives. > > The Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals unanimously rejected appeals by Daniel Holtzclaw that included a lack of evidence, excessive sentence, prosecutorial misconduct, a “circus atmosphere” during his trial and a failure by the defense attorney to present an expert to offer an alternative explanation to how DNA of one victim wound up on Holtzclaw’s pants. > > Holtzclaw’s family said in a statement that it is devastated by the ruling, but not surprised. Holtzclaw’s father, Eric Holtzclaw, said the family plans to file a new round of appeals in federal court, a process family members said could take more than a decade. > > “We will fight for Daniel until he is free,” his sister, Jenny Holtzclaw, told reporters. She said her brother was convicted because of “biased claims” by prosecutors and fabricated accusations by “unreliable accusers.” > > “He deserves freedom. He is innocent of all charges that were brought against him,” Jenny Holtzclaw said. Sure he is, Jenny. Sure he is. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14997 "2019-08-01T23:49:05Z")
Philadelphia today, along with a few other cities: [7 Police Officers Resign After Investigation into Offensive Facebook Posts](https://time.com/5641783/philadelphia-police-officer-facebook/) > [@](#): > > The Philadelphia Police Department says seven officers whose Facebook posts were flagged in an investigation into offensive and sometimes threatening social media activity have resigned. > > Last month, the department suspended 13 officers with an intent to fire them after a nonprofit group published the results of a review of personal Facebook posts or comments from officers in Philadelphia and seven other police departments. > > The researchers found officers from Arizona to Florida bashing immigrants and Muslims, promoting racist stereotypes, identifying with right-wing militia groups and glorifying police brutality. All of the posts were public. > > Capt. Sekou Kinebrew tells the Philadelphia Inquirer he can’t say whether the seven who resigned were among those set to be fired. > > The police officers’ union didn’t comment on the resignations. > > It previously said it was disappointed the officers would “be terminated without due process.” There is a distressing lack of specifics in the brief article: what non-profit group? Where is this study published? What city’s police forces were reviewed in this manner? A little research answered the big questions: [The Plain View Project conducted the study](https://www.plainviewproject.org); I found it via [Nonprofit Quarterly’s website](https://nonprofitquarterly.org/72-philly-cops-shelved-after-nonprofit-exposes-racist-violent-facebook-posts/). It’s pretty graphic and disturbing stuff, especially knowing that the initial posts are all by law enforcement officers. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14998 "2019-08-02T00:56:30Z")
2016, Baton Rouge, LA: Alton Brown is shot to death outside a convenience store. > [@](#): > > A Louisiana police chief apologized Thursday to his city and to the family of a black man shot and killed by a former police officer in 2016, saying the officer never should have been hired, at the same time his office announced a settlement reversing the officer’s 2018 firing and allowing him to resign instead. > > At a news conference in Baton Rouge, Police Chief Murphy Paul and a police lawyer detailed repeated problems with Officer Blane Salamoni that they said should have raised red flags long before Alton Sterling was shot and killed. > [@](#): > > In particular, the lawyer, Leo Hamilton, said Salamoni had been arrested for a physical altercation prior to joining the police department, which normally would have prevented him from being hired. He also failed to disclose his arrest in his application, Hamilton said. > > The chief said the Sterling shooting was part of a well-documented pattern of “unprofessional behavior, police violence, marginalization, polarization and implicit bias by a man who should have never ever wore this uniform.” > > “I want to apologize to the family of Alton Sterling and also to his kids. We’re sorry because he (Salamoni) should’ve never been hired,” Paul said. > > Both state and federal officials declined to prosecute Salamoni and another officer involved in the altercation with Sterling, Howie Lake II. Salamoni — who fired all the shots that killed Sterling — was fired by Murphy in March 2018. > > Salamoni appealed and under the settlement announced Thursday, he’ll be allowed to voluntarily resign retroactive to March 2018 instead of being fired. He will not receive any compensation, Hamilton said. So kind of a bitter pill, and a contradictory one at that. Oh, and of course there’s this: > [@](#): > > McLindon said his client would have easily won reinstatement in an upcoming hearing but that he and Salamoni questioned what that would have achieved. McLindon said his client can resign and become an officer elsewhere if he wants. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14999 "2019-08-02T01:43:26Z")
> **[Body-Cam Footage Shows Dallas Cops Mocking Man As He Dies | iHeart](https://700wlw.iheart.com/content/2019-08-01-body-camfootage-shows-dallas-cops-mocking-man-as-he-dies/#.XUORaBq8FpU)** > > The man begged officers, telling them repeatedly that 'You're gonna kill me!' | iHeart Video of cops mocking a guy who is mentally ill while he is restrained and dying. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15000 "2019-08-02T01:50:58Z")
[2016, Baton Rouge, LA: Alton Brown is shot to death outside a convenience store.](https://apnews.com/f6f14016c7b64a6d883a35a48b330298) I forgot the link earlier; my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15001 "2019-08-02T14:02:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [2016, Baton Rouge, LA: Alton Brown is shot to death outside a convenience store.](https://apnews.com/f6f14016c7b64a6d883a35a48b330298) > > I forgot the link earlier; my apologies. Alton Brown has not been shot; Alton Sterling was not so lucky. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15002 "2019-08-02T14:31:25Z")
Check out this story from USA TODAY: Texas cop kills woman while shooting at dog Police in Texas say a patrol officer accidentally shot and killed a woman when he fired repeatedly at a dog that was charging at him. > **[A Texas police officer accidentally killed a woman while shooting at her dog](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/02/texas-police-officer-killed-woman-arlington-while-shooting-dog/1898825001/)** > > Police in Texas say a patrol officer accidentally shot and killed a woman when he fired repeatedly at a dog that was charging at him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=749) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=751)