# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 761
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15203 "2019-09-25T18:55:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You’re correct that I don’t particularly care - the truth of Giese’s testimony is adequately established by the other evidence you prefer to pretend not to understand. Which is why the DA’s report found what it did. You don’t need videotape - shootings have correctly been found to have been justified long before bodycams existed. And that’s what happened in this case. The truth of Giese’s testimony isn’t established by other evidence; it’s just that the evidence we have doesn’t directly contradict his testimony. You don’t seem to understand the difference. As for your reference to pre-video cases of “justified” shootings, if you believe that there haven’t been literally hundreds (possibly thousands) of cases of police lying about such encounters over the years and decades, then I’ve got a bridge in Arizona that might interest you. > [@Shodan](#): > > And that’s not convenient for me or the police - if video had existed, you would have been whining about them not having enough reason to stop the poor black kid, or simply repeating “fuck the courts” along with that silly sot **Cheesesteak** and the rest of the knee-jerking knuckleheads. And yet, in a number of cases in this very thread, I have argued, based on video and other evidence, that the police did the right thing. So shove your assumptions up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15204 "2019-09-25T19:11:20Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > My guess he was going to talk to the bicyclist and tell him about the lack of a headlight or whatever on his bike. That seems reasonable to me. In his own testimony he mentions vehicle break ins and quality of life violations. He threatened to send his dog after the cyclist. He also said he became “more suspicious” of West after he failed to stop. 100% he wasn’t going to remind West that riding without a headlight is dangerous and go on his way. At a minimum West would have gotten the standard [del]let’s find some shit[/del] officer safety pat down that rarely seems to happen to people who look like me. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15205 "2019-09-25T19:13:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You’re correct that I don’t particularly care It’s just another dead black kid, so why would you? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15206 "2019-09-25T19:20:51Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > In his own testimony he mentions vehicle break ins and quality of life violations. He threatened to send his dog after the cyclist. He also said he became “more suspicious” of West after he failed to stop Yes, and he mentions the “lack of headlight” in his own testimony too. I too would become more suspicious if a person fails to stop when called by police. I don’t have any problems with that. > [@](#): > > 100% he wasn’t going to remind West that riding without a headlight is dangerous and go on his way. At a minimum West would have gotten the standard [del]let’s find some shit[/del] officer safety pat down that rarely seems to happen to people who look like me. Sorry, but this seems created out of whole cloth. I’d rather talk about what the officer did, instead of what you think he would have done. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15207 "2019-09-25T19:31:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, and he mentions the “lack of headlight” in his own testimony too. I too would become more suspicious if a person fails to stop when called by police. I don’t have any problems with that. > > Sorry, but this seems created out of whole cloth. I’d rather talk about what the officer did, instead of what you think he would have done. That would be nice…if only he had had his camera turned on. As it is we can only talk about what he claims happened. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15208 "2019-09-25T19:34:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That would be nice…if only he had had his camera turned on. As it is we can only talk about what he claims happened. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15209 "2019-09-25T20:00:14Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > In all fairness most of those encounters didn’t involve a cop waving his gun around but just because you know 1 white guy who has bad a experience does not balance the scales. Until such a time as every white guy you know has had a “fit the description” conversation with a cop your post comes off as being extremely naïve and condescending to those of us who have to worry about shit like this on a regular basis. I never said it balanced the scales or evened things out or anything else like that. I’m not naive, and I didn’t intend to be condescending. I have no doubt that black and hispanic people have more unwanted, uninitiated, confrontational and shit-goes-to-hell interactions with police than most white people. I agree that it isn’t fair or equitable. I just said it isn’t always about race. Are you arguing that it IS always about race? I doubt it, and am not putting words in your mouth (or post). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15210 "2019-09-25T20:20:20Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The truth of Giese’s testimony isn’t established by other evidence; it’s just that the evidence we have doesn’t directly contradict his testimony. This is wrong, of course. That West had a gun isn’t simply not contradicted - it is demonstrated by finding the gun. That the Tazer was deployed doesn’t simply not contradict the claim that the Tazer was deployed - it establishes that it was. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > 100% he wasn’t going to remind West that riding without a headlight is dangerous and go on his way. Sgt. Giese didn’t get a chance to give any reminders. West ran away and pulled a gun. You stupid sot. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It’s just another dead black kid, so why would you? This is more of your “fuck the facts and the law and the police and the evidence” stuff, isn’t it? Good - less chance of anyone taking you seriously. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15211 "2019-09-25T20:32:04Z")
[Costco shooting: LAPD officer won’t face criminal charges in killing of intellectually disabled man](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/costco-shooting-lapd-officer-wont-face-criminal-charges-in-killing-of-intellectually-disabled-man/ar-AAHQc4o) But will he face charges for the other 2 people he shot? > [@](#): > > Hestrin played a low-quality security video showing Sanchez being knocked to the ground by Kenneth French while the officer was holding a child. The two men fall to the ground before French and his parents seem to move away from the fallen officer. Immediately after, Sanchez opens fire. > > The district attorney’s analysis determined 3.8 seconds elapsed between when Sanchez was knocked to the ground and when the first of a total of 10 shots were fired. He is knocked 'unconscious and regains consciousness in 3.8 seconds ’ and fires off 10 rounds, killing one and wounding two others. In a Costco, it is a fucking miracle that no one else has hit. > [@](#): > > “He was shopping with his wife and 1½-year-old at Costco. His son was in his arms, and he was feeding his son some samples when, within seconds, he was on the ground and woke up from being unconscious and he was fighting for his life,” Winslow said. He gets knocked down and that is 'fighting for his life"? Wow, I have ‘fought for my life’ on several occasions. Never had to kill anyone though. > [@](#): > > The Times requested a copy of the video from inside the store in late June, citing both California public records laws and Assembly Bill 748, which requires government agencies to produce video and audio recordings of critical incidents involving police that result in death or great bodily injury. That request was denied by the city Shocked. Shocked I am that city will not release the video. Yes, I think the knocked unconscious bit is horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15212 "2019-09-25T22:18:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is wrong, of course. That West had a gun isn’t simply not contradicted - it is demonstrated by finding the gun. That the Tazer was deployed doesn’t simply not contradict the claim that the Tazer was deployed - it establishes that it was. That’s it, I’m done. You’re too stupid or too dishonest to argue with. Not sure which one, but it really doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15213 "2019-09-25T23:04:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is more of your “fuck the facts and the law and the police and the evidence” stuff, isn’t it? No, this is all about you and how the death of a black kid is of so little interest to you that you don’t even care that his killer had a body camera that he was supposed to use, specifically to provide evidence in the case of conflict, and his killer chose to not activate it. In fact, his killer had two cameras he was supposed to use, and neither of them were on. But you don’t care. That’s all about you and who you are as a supposed human being. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15214 "2019-09-26T00:12:45Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > No, this is all about you and how the death of a black kid is of so little interest to you that you don’t even care that his killer had a body camera that he was supposed to use, specifically to provide evidence in the case of conflict, and his killer chose to not activate it. In fact, his killer had two cameras he was supposed to use, and neither of them were on. I’m curious about what you think should be done with this information about the cameras? What do you think anyone should have done differently based on the fact that the cameras weren’t activated? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15215 "2019-09-26T01:16:47Z")
Holy fuck: [No charges](https://apnews.com/71de8b9fbacb4d23ac06af0903aeb9c4)! > [@](#): > > An off-duty Los Angeles police officer will not be charged for fatally shooting a mentally ill man who had attacked him and his young son from behind in a California Costco, prosecutors said Wednesday. > > In announcing a grand jury’s findings, Riverside County District Attorney Mike Hestrin said Officer Salvador Sanchez believed he had been shot in the head and a shooter was on the loose when he and his son were knocked to the ground in the unprovoked assault. > > Hestrin said his office would not bring its own charges against Sanchez in the wake of the grand jury decision. I want to see the video. FFS, the rationale presented right there is different than the rationale presented right after the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15216 "2019-09-26T01:23:09Z")
That should clearly be in the Positive Gun News thread. Off-duty cop shoots someone attacking him. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15217 "2019-09-26T01:27:03Z")
Oh, I won’t be surprised when one of our resident cretins posts it there. Disgusted, but not surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15218 "2019-09-26T01:34:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Oh, I won’t be surprised when one of our resident cretins posts it there. Disgusted, but not surprised. I doubt they will, less they draw a warning. Because not ALL defensive gun use (however tenuous ‘defensive’ is) is worthy of that thread. Gotta clear it with the Positive Gun News moderators first. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15219 "2019-09-26T02:06:27Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > [Costco shooting: LAPD officer won’t face criminal charges in killing of intellectually disabled man](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/costco-shooting-lapd-officer-wont-face-criminal-charges-in-killing-of-intellectually-disabled-man/ar-AAHQc4o) > > But will he face charges for the other 2 people he shot? > > He is knocked 'unconscious and regains consciousness in 3.8 seconds ’ and fires off 10 rounds, killing one and wounding two others. In a Costco, it is a fucking miracle that no one else has hit. > > He gets knocked down and that is 'fighting for his life"? Wow, I have ‘fought for my life’ on several occasions. Never had to kill anyone though. > > Shocked. Shocked I am that city will not release the video. > > Yes, I think the knocked unconscious bit is horseshit. This fucking sickens me that this neanderthal kills a guy and critically wounds his parents with no charges. He will probably get a medal and promotion when he gets back to work. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15220 "2019-09-26T02:28:37Z")
He better work really fucking hard; I sense a lawsuit or two coming his way and I don’t think he’s gonna win. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15221 "2019-09-26T05:08:41Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Holy fuck: [No charges](https://apnews.com/71de8b9fbacb4d23ac06af0903aeb9c4)!I want to see the video. FFS, the rationale presented right there is different than the rationale presented right after the shooting. [Video here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzeQYojiNJw). ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15222 "2019-09-26T10:52:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Video here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzeQYojiNJw). Damn, nothing to kill someone about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=760) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=762)