# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 771
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15403 "2019-10-14T21:04:34Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > This is fucked up on so many levels. > > So the doors were opened and the screen doors closed. This is a reason for a police visit??? > > They park around the corner? So that the people in the house can’t see a police car?? Because they suspect what?? A home invasion? Because the have a report of _an open door???_ > > The officers approach with stealth. On a welfare check call. They do not identify themselves as police officers. Because ‘stealth mode’. They ONLY information they had is that a door was open. How is this _possibly_ proper procedure? > > “Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.” > > The homeowner would have been better off shooting at the intruder on her porch. They were probably hoping to find her using drugs or doing some other illegal activity that would allow them to charge her with something. It’s not worth their time come out to make sure that a member of the community is alright if they can’t get an arrest out of it. Responding to the call like sane human beings, pulling up with the lights on and knocking at the front door, wouldn’t have given them the chance to conduct an investigation into any wrongdoings they may imagine her being up to. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15404 "2019-10-14T22:45:51Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > You’re not allowed to be Black in your own front yard: > [Pennsylvania Family Suing After Police Arrest Them For Loitering Outside Their Own Home](https://www.comicsands.com/family-suing-police-arrest-loitering-2640965924.html?utm_content=inf_4_3759_2&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=BTAK&tse_id=INF_bfd277c0eeba11e9b433ab68d22425b2) Not only was the family arrested once for loitering, but they were re-arrested for loitering when they were released from jail. This is what oppression looks like. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15405 "2019-10-14T23:19:12Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Fort Worth is in Tarrant County. Although the shooting was presumably by Fort Worth cops, Tarrant County’s Sheriff is in the news because he attended an anti-immigration event at the White House, where he claimed many undocumented immigrants in his jail are repeat DUI offenders . The sheriff said, ” “These drunks will run over your children, and they will run over my children.” His stepson was arrested on a DUI the next day. > [Tarrant County Sheriff’s Son Arrested for Public Intoxication and Indecent Exposure | News Talk WBAP-AM](http://www.wbap.com/2019/10/14/tarrant-county-sheriffs-son-arrested-for-public-intoxication-and-indecent-exposure/) OK, reality, this is just getting hackneyed. I mean, this episode–no scratch that, the whole damned _season_–is just filled with lazy writing! Frankly, I think the damned Universe has jumped the shark. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15406 "2019-10-15T00:21:48Z")
[Fort Worth officer jailed on murder charge after fatally shooting Atatiana Jefferson](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2019/10/14/fort-worth-officer-who-fatally-shot-atatiana-jefferson-has-resigned-chief-says/) ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15407 "2019-10-15T00:46:24Z")
Fort Worth officer Aaron Dean was charged with murder Monday after fatally shooting Atatiana Jefferson while she played video games in her home. > **[Ex-Fort Worth police officer Aaron Dean charged with murder after shooting...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/14/fort-worth-shooting-nephew-describes-moments-before-shooting/3973133002/)** > > Fort Worth officer Aaron Dean was charged with murder Monday after fatally shooting Atatiana Jefferson > while she played video games in her home. I got beat on the report, but this is great news. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15408 "2019-10-15T02:03:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > They were probably hoping to find her using drugs or doing some other illegal activity that would allow them to charge her with something. It’s not worth their time come out to make sure that a member of the community is alright if they can’t get an arrest out of it. > > Responding to the call like sane human beings, pulling up with the lights on and knocking at the front door, wouldn’t have given them the chance to conduct an investigation into any wrongdoings they may imagine her being up to. I agree with most of this. Given the late hour, the bad neighborhood, and the temperature in Fort Worth at that hour (~45 degrees), a house with all its front door wide open, I am guessing, suggested to the arriving police that it was either a burglary, or the inhabitants were cooking a batch of drugs and were trying to vent away the smell. For either case, surreptitiously approaching the house might either get them the burglars, or a bunch of illicit drug makers, whereas showing up with lights and sirens would allow the criminals to get away or destroy evidence. I really suspect the cops were hoping it was the second. Different agency, but Always Think Forfeiture became a meme for a reason. When I was burglarized, the responding officer did not act like k9befriender’s example officer. But I’ve had friends in similar situations who, when they called the police, the police were more interested in trying to find evidence against the victim, than trying to gather evidence about the burglary. Glad the officer was charged. In a similar situation a few years ago, Fort Worth police officers weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15409 "2019-10-15T02:56:15Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > the bad neighborhood I have yet to see or watch a story on this and hear anything about her neighborhood,let alone describing it as “bad”. Where did you come across this characterization? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15410 "2019-10-15T03:50:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I have yet to see or watch a story on this and hear anything about her neighborhood,let alone describing it as “bad”. Where did you come across this characterization? I guess a working class neighborhood populated mostly by blacks and Hispanics has to be bad. Why else would a cop have his gun out and use it?? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15411 "2019-10-15T03:50:51Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > I guess a working class neighborhood populated mostly by blacks and Hispanics has to be bad. Why else would a cop have his gun out and use it?? Was it a working class neighborhood? The murdered woman was a pharmaceutical rep studying to be a doctor. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15412 "2019-10-15T04:06:03Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > {…} The murdered woman was a pharmaceutical rep studying to be a doctor. Coming soon to a headline near you: Shooting victim was a drug dealer. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15413 "2019-10-15T04:08:23Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Was it a working class neighborhood? The murdered woman was a pharmaceutical rep studying to be a doctor. She was staying at her mother’s house to take care of her. The street shows dozens of properties under 100K and several under 80k. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15414 "2019-10-15T04:11:38Z")
The middle of this article is the working class description of the neighborhood. > **[Opinion | A senseless police shooting in Fort Worth](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-senseless-police-shooting-in-fort-worth/2019/10/14/56ef3a94-eeb1-11e9-b648-76bcf86eb67e_story.html)** > > What prompted an officer to kill Atatiana Jefferson? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15415 "2019-10-15T04:19:13Z")
I think the rest of America is beginning to see why black people don’t trust police, even to “serve and protect” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15416 "2019-10-15T11:07:31Z")
Re “working class neighborhood”. That’s how I would describe my neighborhood. The median income for my neighborhood is just $31K. In the mornings, I see a lot of folks walking out of their homes dressed in uniforms of some type. There are also more than a few pensioners here, and I’m not talking about the kind of pensioner who eventually moves down to Boca. More like the kind who are raising their grandkids. But there are pockets of wealth. My next-door-neighbor and the guy across the street from me are quite well-to-do, as evidenced by the number of vehicles, motorcyles, and boats they own. I’m also not what you would call “working class.” The neighborhood isn’t one that I would call “bad”. Yes, there are property crimes here but not any more than what you find in the hoity-toitier neighborhood just down the street. Besides, we’re in the freakin’ city. There are no crime-free neighborhoods smack dab in the middle of the city (or anywhere else, for that matter) But I would describe it as “relatively safe”. There are certainly many places in the city that I would not describe that way. So I would caution anyone from thinking “working class” is synonomous with “bad”. I would only trust someone who is very familiar with Fort Worth to make that kind of assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15417 "2019-10-15T11:54:14Z")
I don’t associate “working-class neighborhood” with crime, because the term clearly implies that the people there are _working_, and the bad neighborhoods are the ones where people aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15418 "2019-10-15T12:06:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > “Ummmm. No, that’s OK, I’ll go over myself and check on her, thanks. No, you cannot have the address. Bye” I can only imagine how the neighbor who called is feeling. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15419 "2019-10-15T12:34:04Z")
Check out this story from USA TODAY: These cops lied. They can still send you to prison Across the USA, prosecutors aren’t tracking officer misconduct, skirting Supreme Court “Brady” rules and sometimes leading to wrongful convictions. > **[Hundreds of police officers have been labeled liars. Some still help send...](https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2019/10/14/brady-lists-police-officers-dishonest-corrupt-still-testify-investigation-database/2233386001/)** > > Across the USA, prosecutors aren't tracking officer misconduct, skirting Supreme Court "Brady" rules and sometimes leading to wrongful convictions. Absolutely sickening that these thugs get to keep their jobs and continue to ruin people’s lives. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15420 "2019-10-15T12:35:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t associate “working-class neighborhood” with crime, because the term clearly implies that the people there are _working_, and the bad neighborhoods are the ones where people aren’t. I completely agree. It might be a lower income area, but the houses are maintained and look nice backed on the pictures and videos. This was a bad cop who should not have been on the force. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15421 "2019-10-15T13:16:53Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > I completely agree. It might be a lower income area, but the houses are maintained and look nice backed on the pictures and videos. This was a bad cop who should not have been on the force. “…should not have been…” But there are so many who should not have been or should not be, and the “system” covers and lies for them. And if they fuck up in one city or county, they just hop to another. Usually with NO consequences. Now we can probably expect “the system”, the police, and the “media” to look for ways to defame the victim - like they usually try to do. Enough. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15422 "2019-10-15T13:32:16Z")
The story in **UCBearcats** link includes a searchable database of investigations of officers, and a call for help to include expanding it. It is well worth the read. [Police misconduct: Discipline records for thousands of cops uncovered](https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2019/04/24/usa-today-revealing-misconduct-records-police-cops/3223984002/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=770) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=772)