# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 78
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1541 "2015-04-08T23:14:16Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > How many times do you get to resist arrest and attempt to flee until potentially-fatal force can be used to stop you? You don’t get to use lethal force to stop someone fleeing, you use it if and only if you’re stopping someone from harming you or someone else.\* The only way this wasn’t murder is if the guy did in fact steal the taser, and was running towards someone threatening them with it. Which is unlikely but not impossible, which is why an investigation and trial is necessary. But it’s hard to see how he could claim self defence based just on the video. \*There’s a few outliers where lethal force is allowed to stop someone fleeing with your property, but they’re rare. The only place I know that’s the case is Texas, and then only in certain situations. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1542 "2015-04-08T23:15:24Z")
That’s also something being missed in all the outrage: How does this act meet the threshold of pre-meditated intent to kill (i.e. murder)? There seems to be a major leap in logic to suggest the officer planned on killing the man the entire time. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1543 "2015-04-08T23:16:53Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Get help. I’m serious. “Yes, Doctor. It’s a serious problem. I’ve been disagreeing with **get\_lives** for weeks now.” ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1544 "2015-04-08T23:17:15Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > How many times do you get to resist arrest and attempt to flee until potentially-fatal force can be used to stop you? So you think the cop was justified? Seriously? Doesn’t matter if the victim is running away, you can’t gun them down unless they present an immanent threat. If the victim had just shot a bunch of people and was running away with a gun in his hands, then the cop would be justified in shooting him. But that wasn’t the case. The guy got pulled over for a busted taillight and jumped out of the car and ran away. And the cop gunned him down and then lied about what happened. You remember the part where the cop claimed the victim was grabbing for the cop’s taser, and that’s why the cop had to shoot him? Yeah, that didn’t happen. The victim was running away and the cop shot him 8 times in the back, then cuffed him, then went back and got his taser and dropped it next to the victim. Cops don’t have the right to shoot you, not even if you committed a crime like driving with a busted taillight. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1545 "2015-04-08T23:20:02Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Cold blooded murders aren’t committed by people with anger management or impulse control problems, by definition. They’re committed by people with strong psychopathic tendencies, though. That just happens to be one of the groups I mentioned, I believe. And general police brutality is very much committed by the officers with the most anger and least impulse control. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1546 "2015-04-08T23:22:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Yes, Doctor. It’s a serious problem. I’ve been disagreeing with **get\_lives** for weeks now.” No, you’re disagreeing with about 95% of the forum. You’re in agreement with fascists, though, so…yay? LOL ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1547 "2015-04-08T23:22:59Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > That’s also something being missed in all the outrage: > > How does this act meet the threshold of pre-meditated intent to kill (i.e. murder)? There seems to be a major leap in logic to suggest the officer planned on killing the man the entire time. Premeditation is an element of first degree murder according to NC law, it is not an element of second degree murder. [http://www.sog.unc.edu/sites/www.sog.unc.edu/files/nccrimesseventhsample.pdf](http://www.sog.unc.edu/sites/www.sog.unc.edu/files/nccrimesseventhsample.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1548 "2015-04-08T23:24:26Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So you think the cop was justified? Seriously? > > Doesn’t matter if the victim is running away, you can’t gun them down unless they present an immanent threat. If the victim had just shot a bunch of people and was running away with a gun in his hands, then the cop would be justified in shooting him. But that wasn’t the case. The guy got pulled over for a busted taillight and jumped out of the car and ran away. And the cop gunned him down and then lied about what happened. You remember the part where the cop claimed the victim was grabbing for the cop’s taser, and that’s why the cop had to shoot him? Yeah, that didn’t happen. The victim was running away and the cop shot him 8 times in the back, then cuffed him, then went back and got his taser and dropped it next to the victim. > > Cops don’t have the right to shoot you, not even if you committed a crime like driving with a busted taillight. If the police officer attempted to use his taser gun to subdue the fleeing suspect, and the suspect physically confronted him and knocked the taser out of the officer’s hands, what is the recourse for the officer to subdue the suspect when he begins to flee again? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1549 "2015-04-08T23:26:39Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Premeditation is an element of first degree murder according to NC law, it is not an element of second degree murder. [http://www.sog.unc.edu/sites/www.sog.unc.edu/files/nccrimesseventhsample.pdf](http://www.sog.unc.edu/sites/www.sog.unc.edu/files/nccrimesseventhsample.pdf) Ah. Thanks for the clarification. I still think proving malice in the act is going to be difficult. He clearly wanted to subdue the fleeing suspect, from my interpretation of the video. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1550 "2015-04-08T23:27:46Z")
Why is everyone talking about North Carolina law? This is SOUTH Carolina. NC is to SC as baby is to afterbirth. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1551 "2015-04-08T23:36:34Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > While I think the officer in the Ferguson case was justified, from what the video shows this SC case is simply straight-up murder. Every time a video like this surfaces, it should make you question your the belief that the Ferguson shooting was justified. Look at the similarities between the two incidents. One could say the only real difference is that one was caught on camera. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1552 "2015-04-08T23:48:47Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Every time a video like this surfaces, it should make you question your the belief that the Ferguson shooting was justified. Look at the similarities between the two incidents. One could say the only real difference is that one was caught on camera. 32 pages and they don’t get it yet. What will it take? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1553 "2015-04-08T23:54:01Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Ah. Thanks for the clarification. I still think proving malice in the act is going to be difficult. He clearly wanted to subdue the fleeing suspect, from my interpretation of the video. Malice in legal terms is simply someone’s intention to do injury to someone else. If you intentionally shot your gun in the air and the bullet hit a kid in the head and killed him, you intended to shoot the gun, but you didn’t intend to injure the kid. [Malice (law) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malice_%28law%29) If we’re talking South Carolina, then here’s a cite: [Code of Laws - Title 16 - Chapter 3 - Offenses Against The Person](http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c003.php) > [@](#): > > SECTION 16-3-10. “Murder” defined. > > “Murder” is the killing of any person with malice aforethought, either express or implied. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1554 "2015-04-08T23:57:52Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > If the police officer attempted to use his taser gun to subdue the fleeing suspect, and the suspect physically confronted him and knocked the taser out of the officer’s hands, what is the recourse for the officer to subdue the suspect when he begins to flee again? Mighty Professionally Trained Footpower? ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1555 "2015-04-08T23:58:50Z")
If this guy gets the death penalty, will Death Row records consider letting him record under their label? I bet not. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1556 "2015-04-09T00:35:36Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Mighty Professionally Trained Footpower? Fuckin’ awesome! Guy’s running away, sees that the cop is trying to taze him, so he stops! Stops! and then runs _back_ to the cop, knocks the tazer out of the cop’s hand with monkey strong _kung pao_, then turns and runs away. Presumably with the intention of outrunning 9mm bullets. And this guy is like, what, 50? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1557 "2015-04-09T01:03:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And this guy is like, what, 50? not anymore ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1558 "2015-04-09T01:48:36Z")
What if that cop had killed a child with a stray bullet? I’ll let that sink in. Now what if he had killed a WHITE child? Yeah, I stole that from “A Time to Kill”, and the DA is not trying if he doesn’t use it in his closing arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1559 "2015-04-09T02:03:54Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > If the police officer attempted to use his taser gun to subdue the fleeing suspect, and the suspect physically confronted him and knocked the taser out of the officer’s hands, what is the recourse for the officer to subdue the suspect when he begins to flee again? > [@Stringbean](#): > > Ah. Thanks for the clarification. I still think proving malice in the act is going to be difficult. He clearly wanted to subdue the fleeing suspect, from my interpretation of the video. So are you now claiming that a gun is a tool used to “subdue” people? What do you think “subdue” means? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1560 "2015-04-09T02:12:03Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Every time a video like this surfaces, it should make you question your the belief that the Ferguson shooting was justified. Look at the similarities between the two incidents. One could say the only real difference is that one was caught on camera. No. One incident does not have direct bearing on another. If the Ferguson shooting had not been heavily investigated then I might agree with you but that is not the case. For example, in the SC shooting the autopsy would (probably) show the victim had been shot in the back, which would put the cop’s testimony in question. As I understand it all of the forensic message agreed with the Ferguson officer. Don’t make the same mistake that racists make: if one black male is a thug they all are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=77) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=79)