# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 780
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15583 "2019-12-04T20:44:42Z")
[On the positive side, at least she never knew what happened to her…](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-12-03/lapd-officer-under-investigation-for-fondling-female-corpse) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15584 "2019-12-04T20:51:05Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Oh wait, turns out the Starbuck’s POS system won’t let you type “PIG” as a customer name, so the person ordering had to use it as their name, and according to his own daughter the cop in question is a sexist, racist bastard who fully deserves to be called a pig anyway. I’m confused by this part. If the POS system won’t let you type “PIG” as a customer name, how did it end up on a cup? How does the customer giving it as their name change that? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15585 "2019-12-04T21:14:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m confused by this part. If the POS system won’t let you type “PIG” as a customer name, how did it end up on a cup? How does the customer giving it as their name change that? The customer is allowed to put that in through mobile orders. The employee didn’t enter it at all. ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15586 "2019-12-04T21:36:21Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The customer is allowed to put that in through mobile orders. The employee didn’t enter it at all. Snopes says it couldn’t have been a mobile order because the receipt shows it was in-store: [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/starbucks-police-pig/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/starbucks-police-pig/) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15587 "2019-12-04T21:46:00Z")
> [@ricksummon](#): > > Snopes says it couldn’t have been a mobile order because the receipt shows it was in-store: [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/starbucks-police-pig/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/starbucks-police-pig/) Something doesn’t add up. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15588 "2019-12-04T22:21:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He (allegedly) spat in the officer’s eyes and mouth. That’s battery, and if true, that absolutely justifies the body slam. Police officers are entitled to defend themselves. Not an equivalent amount of force. Spitting does not deserve slamming a guy’s head on the ground . ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15589 "2019-12-05T12:16:42Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Not an equivalent amount of force. Spitting does not deserve slamming a guy’s head on the ground . You lose me there. Saliva can be infectious. Spit on me and I’ll attempt to break your spitter. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15590 "2019-12-05T12:21:22Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > [On the positive side, at least she never knew what happened to her…](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-12-03/lapd-officer-under-investigation-for-fondling-female-corpse) Whoa. Protect & Serve; which was this? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15591 "2019-12-05T12:27:11Z")
[https://twitter.com/jlegewie/status/1202331879615193088](https://twitter.com/jlegewie/status/1202331879615193088) “…in utero exposure to police killings of unarmed Blacks within 1-3 km of mother’s residence substantially reduces the birth weight of Black infants by 50-80g” and “…no effect for police killings of armed Black or white and Hispanic victims on infant health suggesting that stress and anxiety related to perceived injustice and discrimination might explain this finding” This data supports a hypothesis I’ve suggested for a long time – broad societal injustice against black people, even if it’s just in the “background”, decreases the chances for black people to thrive. In other words, being black in America is harmful to one’s health. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15592 "2019-12-05T13:27:23Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > You lose me there. Saliva can be infectious. Spit on me and I’ll attempt to break your spitter. The guy can be restrained without attempting to kill him. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15593 "2019-12-05T13:49:24Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > The guy can be restrained without attempting to kill him. Fine. Put a dry-cleaner bag over his head and duct tape around his neck. Sorry, I draw the line at bodily discharges. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15594 "2019-12-05T13:55:01Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Check out this story from Detroit Free Press: Sergeant suspended in cop killing case was once fired for being a coward > > The Detroit police sergeant suspended with pay on accusations of not showing up at the scene of a shooting that killed a police officer has a troubled past. > > [Sergeant suspended in Rasheen McClain case once fired over cowardice](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2019/11/26/sergeant-suspended-rasheen-mcclain-case-once-fired-over-cowardice/4308445002/) Fired, and then got his job back "The sergeant who was suspended for not rushing to the scene of last week’s fatal shooting of Detroit police officer Rasheen McClain was fired five years ago for behaving cowardly: He stood by and watched a female officer get assaulted, police said. But he **still got his job back, and, was promoted to sergeant** — a fact that Police Chief James Craig said he struggles with." It isn’t "just a few bad apples, it’s the whole damn “system”. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15595 "2019-12-05T22:40:21Z")
West Virginia police academy graduating class all does a Nazi salute in a photo with the caption “Hail Byrd”, the name of their trainer. > **[WV employees suspended after photo emerges of correctional officers' Nazi salute](https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/legal_affairs/wv-employees-suspended-after-photo-emerges-of-correctional-officers-nazi/article_fb446f32-31c5-5b46-9977-5854937697a7.html)** > > Several West Virginia state employees have been suspended after a photo emerged depicting a training class of roughly 30 correctional officers performing a Nazi salute. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15596 "2019-12-06T00:06:03Z")
Correction: correction officers, not police officers. Still very, very bad of course. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15597 "2019-12-06T01:10:29Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > West Virginia police academy graduating class all does a Nazi salute in a photo with the caption “Hail Byrd”, the name of their trainer. > [WV employees suspended after photo emerges of correctional officers' Nazi salute](https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/legal_affairs/wv-employees-suspended-after-photo-emerges-of-correctional-officers-nazi/article_fb446f32-31c5-5b46-9977-5854937697a7.html) This seems like much ado about very little. Seems like they are just giving a nudge to an overly-strict training office. You ever refer to a teacher or a supervisor who drives you hard a ‘Nazi’? A joke picture that was never meant to be public. Ill advised, to be sure. Poor judgement, yeah. Them showing themselves to be Nazis or white supremacists? I don’t think so. Especially since one is black and 4 of them couldn’t get the hand gesture right. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15598 "2019-12-06T06:11:50Z")
Two robbers hold up a jewelry store in Florida and during the escape hijack a UPS truck taking the driver hostage. 11 police officers open fire. The two robbers, the UPS driver hostage and the innocent driver of another car end up dead. > **[Robbery suspects, hostage and bystander killed after hijacking, dramatic...](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article238090049.html)** > > Armed robbers hijacked a UPS truck after a robbery in Coral Gables, leading police cars on a harrowing chase up Interstate 75 that ended Thursday night in a dramatic and deadly shootout on a busy street in Miramar. So who killed the two innocents? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15599 "2019-12-06T14:41:27Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Two robbers hold up a jewelry store in Florida and during the escape hijack a UPS truck taking the driver hostage. 11 police officers open fire. The two robbers, the UPS driver hostage and the innocent driver of another car end up dead. > [https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article238090049.html](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article238090049.html) > > So who killed the two innocents? The UPS driver? Could be either set of parties. The bystander? Probably the cops. Will we learn who shot who? Not for a long time. Video of the final shootout. It is gruesome. [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vo-T2\_R7oA](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vo-T2_R7oA) Note the swiss cheesing of the side of the UPS van. Also note police using innocent people, including children, as concealment for their approach to the van. Fucking incompetent cowards. The lot of them. Russian cops approve of how this was handled. Look at the holes on the side of that van. That look like aimed fire to you? The police in this country only really care about getting home at the end of the day. They sort of care about apprehending criminals If they have to hose down a crowded street so they can make it through a deadly force encounter, so be it. I thought Idiocracy was a ham-handed satire. I didn’t think it would be prescient. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15600 "2019-12-06T16:55:52Z")
Are police are little more than military cosplayers. This is fucking insane. No one wants the police to just let robbers and hostage-takers get away, but between “let them go” and “re-enact the battle of Mogadishu”, there’s got to be a better approach. What the fuck kind of training did these guys have? _They were using cars full of bystanders as cover, for Christ’s sake!_ Did Michael Bay do their training films? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15601 "2019-12-06T17:23:48Z")
So, UPS can track their trucks, and they even let you track your delivery in real time as it’s being driven on the truck with a simple phone app, but Miami police felt they had to assault this vehicle while it was stuck in slow or stalled traffic and surrounded by vehicles occupied by civilians because otherwise the bad guys might get away? Insanely irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15602 "2019-12-06T17:31:01Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Are police are little more than military cosplayers. > > This is fucking insane. No one wants the police to just let robbers and hostage-takers get away, but between “let them go” and “re-enact the battle of Mogadishu”, there’s got to be a better approach. What the fuck kind of training did these guys have? _They were using cars full of bystanders as cover, for Christ’s sake!_ Did Michael Bay do their training films? ‘Warriors on the homefront’, I’ve heard them describe themselves. Long way from Peel’s Principles. UPS trucks are GPS tracked. Call up UPS, get a real time location of the truck, maintain surveillance. Alternatively, PIT the vehicle along one of the more deserted stretches of road in the 25 mile chase. It’s going to be really rough on the hostage, but it confines the drama to a smaller, more easily controlled area. And it’s infinitely better than trying to use suppressive fire on a target surrounded by friendlies. They nearly shot each other, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some officers were getting medical care for taking fragments from all of the ricochets and spall. Not letting them break containment from the jewelry store robber scene would be ideal, as would stopping them between the jewelry store and carjacking the UPS truck. Just complete reckless disregard by the firing officers for any human life or safety other than their own. In a perfect world, that reckless disregard for safety, coupled with the deaths of the bystander and the hostage, should result in manslaughter charges. In our world, nothing of substance will happen. Doubt many of the officers will lose their jobs over this, and if they do, they’ll just get hired somewhere else. Any monetary penalty will ultimately just be paid by the taxpayers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=779) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=781)