# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 792
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15823 "2020-05-22T13:24:11Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …[watch the NYT video](https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007142853/ahmaud-arbery-video-911-georgia.html?smid=pl-share). Wow. Much better illustration of context. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15824 "2020-05-22T18:30:14Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Yep. Apparently (per Atlanta local news this morning) there’s more video the public hasn’t seen, the chase of Arbery lasted for over 4 minutes during which Mr. Bryan (the video taker) helped to block Arbery’s exit from the neighborhood and corral him toward the McMichaels. He’s therefore charged with murder and attempted false imprisonment. I’m torn between being happy that they were stupid enough to not only video their assault, kidnapping and murder, but to then release it thinking it was exonerating, and the fact that that stupidity is part of the reason that they are racist fucks who murder black men for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15825 "2020-05-22T20:23:14Z")
From the Wikipedia quote a few posts above: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Wikipedia > The rule of felony murder is a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when an offender kills in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime, the offender, and also the offender’s accomplices or co-conspirators, may be found guilty of murder. The rule may be even more all-inclusive than that. It’s not even necessary, apparently, that the offender kills someone. It may suffice that somebody somehow dies in the commission of a felony, then every accomplice can be charged with Felony Murder. I recall a case from some time ago: A bank robber robbed a bank, and while trying to make his getaway, got shot dead by the police. (I don’t know if he fired first or any other details.) Note that the offender didn’t kill anybody. The police killed him. So the police went to the offender’s home and arrested his wife on Felony Murder charges, claiming that she had conspired with him to help plan the robbery. (I never saw any follow-up as to how that case turned out.) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15826 "2020-05-23T02:48:52Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > As far as I can tell, the only 2 times an active-duty police officer has been successfully prosecuted for killing a citizen by mistake were Amber Guyger, and Mohamed Noor (that incident in Minnesota 2 years ago). And Noor was: 1. black 2. not well liked by fellow officers. (He was hired as part of a program to increase racial diversity in the police force; not through the normal hiring/training process.) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15827 "2020-05-23T07:36:48Z")
In the Breonna Taylor case, the prosecution says that it’s dropping the charges against her boyfriend. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15828 "2020-05-25T14:58:09Z")
We’ve talked quite a bit about civil asset forfeiture in some of the cases in this thread, and about how it often allows law enforcement to take property even in the absence of a conviction. This week, the Arizona House of Representatives voted on SB1556, a bill that would require a criminal conviction before any attempt to take a person’s property through the process of civil asset forfeiture. The text of the bill can be read [here](https://apps.azleg.gov/BillStatus/GetDocumentPdf/478646) (pdf), and the section of the bill directly relevant to forfeiture, section 13-4304, can be found starting on page 18. > [@](#): > > 13-4304. Property subject to forfeiture; exemptions; innocent owner > > A. EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN SUBSECTIONS B, C AND D OF THIS SECTION, > all property, including all interests in such property, described in a > statute providing for its forfeiture is subject to forfeiture. [del]However[/del] IF > BOTH OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY: > > 1. THE OWNER IS CONVICTED OF AN OFFENSE TO WHICH FORFEITURE > APPLIES. > > 2. THE STATE ESTABLISHES BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT THE > PROPERTY IS SUBJECT TO FORFEITURE AS PROVIDED IN SUBSECTION E OF THIS > SECTION. > > [del]1. No[/del] B. A vehicle used by any person as a common carrier in the > transaction of business as a common carrier may NOT be forfeited under [del]the > provisions of[/del] this chapter unless [del]it appears[/del] THE STATE PROVES BY CLEAR AND > CONVINCING EVIDENCE that the owner or other person in charge of the > vehicle was a consenting party or privy to the act or omission giving rise > to forfeiture or knew or had reason to know of it. The red deletions and the blue all-caps show what has been deleted from, and added to, the previous version of the statute. You can read more on the linked document if you want to see the other provisions of the bill. While the State Senate passed the bill unanimously, the House of Representative voted it down last Thursday, with EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT voting against the changes. You can see the results [here](https://apps.azleg.gov/BillStatus/BillOverview/73916), if you’re interested. Why did they vote against it? [This article](https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2020/05/20/house-panel-approves-measure-to-raise-bar-on-forfeitures/) from the Arizona Capitol Times gives some information. Basically, the Democrats argued pretty much the same thing that all defenders of civil asset forfeiture have been arguing for decades: > [@](#): > > “There are abuses out there,” said Rep. Kirsten Engel, D-Tucson. > > Engel said, though, she could not support such a change without also finding a way to ensure that counties have the money they need. She said the state is in no position to do that now, partly because it already has adopted a budget for the coming fiscal year and partly because the COVID-19 pandemic is going to slash anticipated state revenues by $1 billion or more. Basically, “We know this deprives people of their rights, but we really need the money.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15829 "2020-05-26T12:51:01Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > [Former Houston officer accused of lying to get warrant faces murder charges after botched raid](https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/23/us/houston-officers-charged-no-knock-raid/index.html) There’s nothing new regarding this dirty cop’s trial; he’s under home confinement on bond, waiting for his trial. I just wanted to note that prosecutors in Houston, back in February, dismissed 73 cases in which this cop was the only witness to alleged drug activity. And they are [now moving to dismiss](https://www.chron.com/news/article/DA-91-more-drug-cases-tied-to-ex-Texas-cop-to-be-15286520.php) another 91 cases where he wrote affidavits that were used to obtain search warrants that led to drug arrests. This quote from the newspaper article is particularly depressing: > [@](#): > > All of the individuals in the 164 cases being dismissed are minorities and the majority are African American, prosecutors said. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15830 "2020-05-26T13:54:40Z")
[Police kill another unarmed African-American in Minneapolis.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/26/minneapolis-police-death-custody-fbi/?fbclid=IwAR3LQwmaF1rmll3uNR9C-YPrJdXauhvRIV2qgBpPd0qjJjdkAR3Vl1J470Q) I guess “not breathing” is the same thing as “subdued”. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15831 "2020-05-26T13:59:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [Police kill another unarmed African-American in Minneapolis.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/26/minneapolis-police-death-custody-fbi/?fbclid=IwAR3LQwmaF1rmll3uNR9C-YPrJdXauhvRIV2qgBpPd0qjJjdkAR3Vl1J470Q) I guess “not breathing” is the same thing as “subdued”. I don’t know, this doesn’t seem very controversial to me – they straight-up killed that guy. Can someone ping one of the local cop-defenders so I can get my eyes opened about how a guy in cuffs on the ground has to have a knee in his neck? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15832 "2020-05-26T14:05:46Z")
> [@](#): > > The Minneapolis Police Department said in a press release that officers arrived at the scene in response to a reported “forgery in progress.” The suspect, police said, was in a car and appeared to be under the influence. He “physically resisted” officers, police said. _Forgery??_ ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15833 "2020-05-26T14:11:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Forgery??_ Since the article twice references “Cup Foods” which I assume should be “Cub Foods” (a grocery chain), I’m hoping that is another example of how crappy the reporting is. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15834 "2020-05-26T14:21:03Z")
Forgery in progress. “OK MOTHERFUCKER,DROP THE PALETTE, BRUSH, AND CADMIUM YELLOW.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15835 "2020-05-26T14:21:44Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Since the article twice references “Cup Foods” which I assume should be “Cub Foods” (a grocery chain), I’m hoping that is another example of how crappy the reporting is. Cup Foods is a take out chain in Minneapolis-this took me 7 seconds of Googling to find out. At least put a little effort into it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15836 "2020-05-26T14:26:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Cup Foods is a take out chain in Minneapolis-this took me 7 seconds of Googling to find out. At least put a little effort into it. :rolleyes: I did put a little effort into it (relying on my memory of Twin Cities retail establishments and assuming the worst of coastal based reporter not familiar with an area). Obviously not enough, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15837 "2020-05-26T21:48:25Z")
FTR, I assumed that it was a typo for Cub Foods as well. What I want to know is why were the cops only fired and not charged with any crime? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15838 "2020-05-26T22:04:43Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > FTR, I assumed that it was a typo for Cub Foods as well. No, it’s CUP Foods. A tiny little storefront on 38th Street in South Minneapolis. (Kinda known as a druggie hangout in the neighborhood.) Years ago, CUB Foods (SuperValu) considered suing then for copying the name, but decided that while they would probably win the lawsuit, it would just give that store more publicity. > [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > What I want to know is why were the cops only fired and not charged with any crime? Because the cause of death seems to be a drug overdose, not something that was caused by the cop. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15839 "2020-05-26T23:57:19Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Because the cause of death seems to be a drug overdose, not something that was caused by the cop. That’s gonna need a fucking cite. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15840 "2020-05-27T00:33:11Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > FTR, I assumed that it was a typo for Cub Foods as well. > > What I want to know is why were the cops only fired and not charged with any crime? No prosecutor is going to charge a (former) PO with murder until that prosecutor is close to 100% sure of conviction (and even then sometimes they still won’t). I really hope the former cop will be charged, but it really is unreasonable to expect charges to happen this quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15841 "2020-05-27T11:43:20Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > No prosecutor is going to charge a (former) PO with murder until that prosecutor is close to 100% sure of conviction (and even then sometimes they still won’t). I really hope the former cop will be charged, but it really is unreasonable to expect charges to happen this quickly. Yeah, that system isn’t fucked up at all. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15842 "2020-05-27T13:05:16Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > … > > Because the cause of death seems to be a drug overdose, not something that was caused by the cop. Cite? _If_ that’s true can’t the cop be charged with something less than murder? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=791) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=793)