# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 794
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15863 "2020-05-30T02:57:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Got in an brief back-and-forth with my true-blue friend, who actually thought it was a good thing that Chauvin was being charged (probably because, hey, that might calm down the rioters). But I responded that charging the officer is not an answer. It should be a requirement, but the thing that needs to be done is to fire the chief, with an eye toward hiring a replacement who will push forward with strategies like de-escalation. Which was not well received. I was told that these rioters are not persons, they are animals. However, I have also known animals that were quite well behaved, so perhaps that is the counter-argument. To be faaaaaaaair, the current police chief rose to his position after the previous chief was fired following the Justine Damond shooting in 2017. He has tried a number of things to improve public relations, like [not injecting suspects with ketamine](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/minnesota/articles/2018-06-14/report-minneapolis-cops-urged-ems-to-sedate-subjects). And straight up firing all officers involved in Floyd’s murder took some balls, especially with how absolutely shitty some police unions can be. But then they posted dozens of officers outside Chauvin’s house instead of arresting him, so fuck if I can decide whether I like him or not. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15864 "2020-05-30T03:21:31Z")
Louisville cop deliberately targeting and shooting pepper bullets at TV reporter who was reporting live on the air. [https://theguardiansofdemocracy.com/reporter-screams-as-officer-deliberately-fires-rubber-bullets-at-her-during-live-broadcast-from-louisville-protest](https://theguardiansofdemocracy.com/reporter-screams-as-officer-deliberately-fires-rubber-bullets-at-her-during-live-broadcast-from-louisville-protest) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15865 "2020-05-30T04:23:47Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > To be faaaaaaaair, the current police chief rose to his position after the previous chief was fired following the Justine Damond shooting in 2017. He has tried a number of things to improve public relations, like [not injecting suspects with ketamine](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/minnesota/articles/2018-06-14/report-minneapolis-cops-urged-ems-to-sedate-subjects). And straight up firing all officers involved in Floyd’s murder took some balls, especially with how absolutely shitty some police unions can be. > > But then they posted dozens of officers outside Chauvin’s house instead of arresting him, so fuck if I can decide whether I like him or not. I am not convinced that “fairness” is the well-considered course for approaching a guild whose native modality evidently does not involve dealing with people fairly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15866 "2020-05-30T10:56:54Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Louisville cop deliberately targeting and shooting pepper bullets at TV reporter who was reporting live on the air. > [https://theguardiansofdemocracy.com/reporter-screams-as-officer-deliberately-fires-rubber-bullets-at-her-during-live-broadcast-from-louisville-protest](https://theguardiansofdemocracy.com/reporter-screams-as-officer-deliberately-fires-rubber-bullets-at-her-during-live-broadcast-from-louisville-protest) What the fuck does anyone expect? They have been told by their president over and over and fucking over again that the press is an enemy of the people. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15867 "2020-05-30T12:09:09Z")
And the real reason to fear for the future of your country. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15868 "2020-05-30T20:45:02Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > But then they posted dozens of officers outside Chauvin’s house instead of arresting him, so fuck if I can decide whether I like him or not. His house is in a different county, a couple of suburbs away from Minneapolis. Not within the jurisdiction of the Minneapolis Police Chief. very much doubt that those were Minneapolis officers posted there. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15869 "2020-05-30T21:19:13Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > His house is in a different county, a couple of suburbs away from Minneapolis. Not within the jurisdiction of the Minneapolis Police Chief. very much doubt that those were Minneapolis officers posted there. Got a cite for the overdose thing yet? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15870 "2020-05-30T21:29:56Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > His house is in a different county, a couple of suburbs away from Minneapolis. Not within the jurisdiction of the Minneapolis Police Chief. very much doubt that those were Minneapolis officers posted there. Oh look, the troll that declared George Floyd died because of an overdose and not because of Officer Chauvin’s action, then ran away like a little coward is back. That said, my assertion that it was MPD at Chauvin’s house was incorrect. It’s was 5 lines of Oakdale police. Mea culpa, Chief Arradondo. **[Tim@T-Bonham.net](mailto:Tim@T-Bonham.net)**, fuck off until you provide a cite for your previous assertion, you chickenshit. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15871 "2020-05-30T21:30:27Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Got a cite for the overdose thing yet? Obviously, there can’t be a cite until the autopsy report & toxicology report is done, in a week or so. But the preliminary autopsy does state that George Floyd was not suffocated or asphyxiated, and that there was no trauma to his airway. I expect Officer Chauvin’s defense attorney to make much use of that finding in court. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15872 "2020-05-30T21:42:37Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Obviously, there can’t be a cite until the autopsy report & toxicology report is done, in a week or so. > > But the preliminary autopsy does state that George Floyd was not suffocated or asphyxiated, and that there was no trauma to his airway. > > I expect Officer Chauvin’s defense attorney to make much use of that finding in court. So…no actual evidence for your assertion? Makes sense, then. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15873 "2020-05-30T21:51:56Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Obviously, there can’t be a cite until the autopsy report & toxicology report is done, in a week or so. > > But the preliminary autopsy does state that George Floyd was not suffocated or asphyxiated, and that there was no trauma to his airway. > > I expect Officer Chauvin’s defense attorney to make much use of that finding in court. Yeah, didn’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15874 "2020-05-30T23:53:01Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Obviously, there can’t be a cite until the autopsy report & toxicology report is done, in a week or so. > > But the preliminary autopsy does state that George Floyd was not suffocated or asphyxiated, and that there was no trauma to his airway. > > I expect Officer Chauvin’s defense attorney to make much use of that finding in court. Hey asshole, here’s what you said originally: > [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Because the cause of death seems to be a **drug overdose, not something that was caused by the cop.** My emphasis. Even the preliminary autopsy that you are using as your evidence says: > [@](#): > > The combined effects of **Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police** , his underlying health conditions and any **potential intoxicants** in his system likely contributed to his death. My emphasis again. Tell me again how the cop didn’t help to cause his death under that description. What’s more, the [criminal complaint](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6933246-Derek-Chauvin-Complaint.html) and the video of the incident shows that it took them over two minutes to get the knee off his neck even after he became unresponsive and stopped breathing, and after one officer failed to find a pulse when he checked Floyd’s wrist. > [@](#): > > At 8:24:24, Mr. Floyd stopped moving. At 8:25:31 the video appears to show Mr. Floyd ceasing to breathe or speak. Lane said, “want to roll him on his side.” Kueng checked Mr. Floyd’s right wrist for a pulse and said, “I couldn’t find one.” None of the officers moved from their positions. > > At 8:27:24, the defendant removed his knee from Mr. Floyd’s neck. An ambulance and emergency medical personnel arrived, the officers placed Mr. Floyd on a gurney, and the ambulance left the scene. Mr. Floyd was pronounced dead at Hennepin County Medical Center. Now I don’t know what the medical examiner’s report means when it says “potential intoxicants in his system.” That’s a pretty weaselly way to word it. Does that mean there were substances in his system that are potential intoxicants, or that there were potentially (but not yet determined) intoxicating substances in his system? It’s not clear whether they actually found intoxicants, and it’s also not at all clear that this means a “drug overdose,” which was your idiotic fucking assertion. It could very well mean alcohol. But even if he did have drugs in his system, once he was in custody the police were still responsible for him, and every minute with a knee in his neck while he was suffering from medical distress is another minute that he doesn’t get treatment, and another minute where his condition is allowed to worsen. The cop is responsible for that, even if the knee is not the only, or the direct and proximate cause, of his death. TLDR version: go fuck yourself with your blame-deflecting bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15875 "2020-05-31T01:28:21Z")
I posted the below in the MMP thread, because I really needed to talk to my closest friends here. But I think it also belongs in this thread, so with a few alterations, here it is (hope I am not treading on any violations, moderators). "There were protests today in Boston. It included a young woman, who is the daughter of a good friend and whom I personally know, being knocked down and hauled away by police. Her crime was using milk to wash out the eyes of people who had been hit with tear gas. She belongs to a Christian church that teaches non-violence and she’s all of 110lbs. That’s her on the ground in picture #6: [https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...T9IM\_HRNzW4Jhw](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...T9IM_HRNzW4Jhw) She needed to go to hospital, although apparently she’s out now. She did not offer violence. She did not throw or start trouble. She was there to minister to the needy. She’s 110lbs." I am between concern for my friend and outrage at this treatment. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15876 "2020-05-31T01:44:23Z")
Linky no worky for me. Is it [this picture](https://media.nbcboston.com/2019/09/GettyImages-1216237128.jpg?fit=4928%2C3280)? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15877 "2020-05-31T03:08:55Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Linky no worky for me. Is it [this picture](https://media.nbcboston.com/2019/09/GettyImages-1216237128.jpg?fit=4928%2C3280)? Yes. This link should work for other pictures in context: [Photos: Protesters, Police Clash in Boston – NBC Boston](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/photos-protesters-police-clash-in-boston/2133727/) ---
**Author:** ![Anxious\_Squirrel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anxious_squirrel/32/1083_2.png) [@Anxious\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anxious_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15878 "2020-05-31T04:34:27Z")
I think everyone who shows up to those protests are really brave. The black participants even more so, of course. But boldly showing up to oppose your local murder thugs is admirable, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15879 "2020-05-31T05:21:06Z")
SO many videos of cops out of control all around the country. NYPD driving their cars into protesters and trampling protesters with their horses. Salt Lake City cops attacking and beating an old man with a cane. Louisville cops were videotaped destroying the cache of water and milk that protesters had set up to protect themselves from tear gas. Minneapolis cops and National Guard marching down residential streets firing rubber bullets at people sitting on their porches. MSNBC reporter Ali Veshly says he was hit in the leg with a rubber bullet after NYPD fired unprovoked into a peaceful rally. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15880 "2020-05-31T05:46:29Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Minneapolis cops and National Guard marching down residential streets firing rubber bullets at people sitting on their porches. From what I hear it’s all the police doing the shooting, not the Guard. The Guard has apparently been pretty restrained and professional, while the police are acting like maniacs. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15881 "2020-05-31T06:03:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > From what I hear it’s all the police doing the shooting, not the Guard. The Guard has apparently been pretty restrained and professional, while the police are acting like maniacs. One of the commentators in the video I saw said the people firing the rubber bullets were not dressed like cops, but like National Guard. I can’t verify what the Minneapolis cops are supposed to be dressed like. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15882 "2020-05-31T06:15:22Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Obviously, there can’t be a cite until the autopsy report & toxicology report is done, in a week or so. Quite frankly, _what the fuck does it matter_? If someone seems to be having a potentially fatal OD episode, you (a police officer who is or should be trained to recognize that) get the ambulance coming right away. Not helping a person who is likely to be dying is the same as killing them when you have the means/ability to do so. You seem to want to blame George Floyd for dying – that is simply out of bounds here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=793) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=795)