# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 795
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15883 "2020-05-31T07:07:03Z")
The police are shooting at people that are standing on their own porches in Minneapolis. What the fuckity fuck fuck is going on here? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15884 "2020-05-31T08:13:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The police are shooting at people that are standing on their own porches in Minneapolis. What the fuckity fuck fuck is going on here? A [police riot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_riot), that’s what. They’re angry that people are complaining about being murdered and are lashing out at everyone. Those people on their porches are not the police, therefore they are the enemy and must be punished. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15885 "2020-05-31T11:48:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A [police riot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_riot), that’s what. They’re angry that people are complaining about being murdered and are lashing out at everyone. Those people on their porches are not the police, therefore they are the enemy and must be punished. Interesting how, by just changing a few words, this describes the Amy Cooper situation well. The link is the _unwillingness to admit you did something wrong, when caught in the act by someone society has given you power over_. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15886 "2020-05-31T14:28:03Z")
[conspiracy theory](https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266917766273040390): person seen busting the glass on an AutoZone (leading to looting) is actually outed as an off-duty police officer. no dirty tricks going on here, no, none at all ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15887 "2020-05-31T16:08:17Z")
Well, along with IOWRDI we now have IOWCDI. It’s a natural progression. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15888 "2020-05-31T16:17:05Z")
> [@TheMysteryWriter](#): > > I think everyone who shows up to those protests are really brave. The black participants even more so, of course. But boldly showing up to oppose your local murder thugs is admirable, I think. I agree with your sentiment, but you are slightly overly broad. Those who show up to the protests to protest against police brutality and racial inequality are very brave. Those who show up for other reasons are POS. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > The police are shooting at people that are standing on their own porches in Minneapolis. What the fuckity fuck fuck is going on here? Gotta show the population who is boss. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15889 "2020-05-31T16:18:36Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > [Former MPD Officer Derek Chauvin In Custody, Charged With Murder In George Floyd’s Death](https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/derek-chauvin-arrested-george-floyd-death-minneapolis-police-officer/) > > The cynic in me is wary of the “fastest we’ve ever charged” comment. It almost sounds like he’s softballing the defense a rush to justice argument. There’s an [interesting op-ed](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/05/31/opinion/minnesota-prosecutors-charges-might-lead-an-unjustly-easy-sentence-george-floyds-killer/) in the Boston Globe by Laurence Tribe and Albert Goins. I’m not familiar with Goins, although the story notes that he’s a criminal lawyer with extensive experience dealing with police misconduct in Minnesota. Tribe is one of the nation’s best-known legal scholars. They are very worried that the third-degree murder charge against Chauvin is likely to result in the dismissal of that charge by the judge. Mineesota’s third-degree murder charge, according to Tribe and Goins, is: > [@](#): > > applicable only where someone unintentionally causes death by “reckless or wanton acts … without special regard to their effect on any particular person” — like shooting aimlessly into a crowd. That is, the charge is explicitly designed to deal with situations where the deadly force was not intentionally aimed at the particular person who died. Because Chauvin had his knee directly on Floyd’s neck, it is clear that Chauvin was aiming his actions directly at Floyd, making a third-degree murder charge inappropriate under the statue. Tribe and Goins further note that: > [@](#): > > There is just too much well-settled precedent in Minnesota dealing with the inapplicability of third-degree murder charges where “all the blows were directed towards the victim.” They believe that a second-degree felony murder charge is much more appropriate in this situation, and they call for the Minnesota governor to replace the local prosecutor with the State Attorney General in the case. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15890 "2020-05-31T16:19:42Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I agree with your sentiment, but you are slightly overly broad. > > Those who show up to the protests to protest against police brutality and racial inequality are very brave. > > Those who show up for other reasons are POS. > > Gotta show the population who is boss. I’m seeing a whole lot of “Respect my authoritah!” going on. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15891 "2020-06-01T00:13:36Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Tribe and Goins further note that: > They believe that a second-degree felony murder charge is much more appropriate in this situation, and they call for the Minnesota governor to replace the local prosecutor with the State Attorney General in the case. Oughtta go for it. Might even have a witness for the prosecution lining up in the bullpen. [Chauvin’s wife filed for divorce a couple of days ago](https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/lawyer-wife-of-charged-ex-mpd-officer-derek-chauvin-files-for-divorce/). ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15892 "2020-06-01T00:22:21Z")
And this is a pisser. [Journalists shot with rubber bullets and arrested for covering the protests in Minneapolis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klLz6ovxT8U&feature=emb_logo). It’s getting so bad that Reuters has called it [open season on the free press](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protests-press/open-season-on-the-free-press-journalists-targeted-in-attacks-as-u-s-protests-rage-idUSKBN2370T5). ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15893 "2020-06-01T01:11:47Z")
Protester viciously attacks police officer’s foot. > ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15894 "2020-06-01T03:09:05Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > And this is a pisser. [Journalists shot with rubber bullets and arrested for covering the protests in Minneapolis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klLz6ovxT8U&feature=emb_logo). > > It’s getting so bad that Reuters has called it [open season on the free press](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protests-press/open-season-on-the-free-press-journalists-targeted-in-attacks-as-u-s-protests-rage-idUSKBN2370T5). A VICE reporter was thrown to the ground holding his press pass over his head, a Minneapolis cop casually walked by and sprayed him in the face. The cop wasn’t even one of those who had thrown him to the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15895 "2020-06-01T06:20:32Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [conspiracy theory](https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266917766273040390): person seen busting the glass on an AutoZone (leading to looting) is actually outed as an off-duty police officer. > > no dirty tricks going on here, no, none at all Cop or not, he was pretty clearly not there to do anything but start shit. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15896 "2020-06-01T11:19:04Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Obviously, there can’t be a cite until the autopsy report & toxicology report is done, in a week or so. > > But the preliminary autopsy does state that George Floyd was not suffocated or asphyxiated, and that there was no trauma to his airway. There’s no “preliminary autopsy.” There’s just an autopsy, with (for now) preliminary findings. See [page 3 of this PDF:](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6933246/Derek-Chauvin-Complaint.pdf) > [@State of Minnesota](#): > > The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (ME) conducted Mr. Floyd’s autopsy on May 26, 2020. The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death. Here is [“Traumatic asphyxiation”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_asphyxia): > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Traumatic asphyxia, or Perthes’s syndrome, is a medical emergency caused by an intense compression of the thoracic cavity, causing venous back-flow from the right side of the heart into the veins of the neck and the brain. > . > . > . > The sudden impact on the thorax causes an increase in intrathoracic pressure. In order for traumatic asphyxia to occur, a Valsalva maneuver is required when the traumatic force is applied. Exhalation against the closed glottis along with the traumatic event causes air that cannot escape from the thoracic cavity. Instead, the air causes increased venous back-pressure, which is transferred back to the heart through the right atrium, to the superior vena cava and to the head and neck veins and capillaries. Nobody anywhere has claimed this is what happened to Floyd, so it’s not surprising that an autopsy would not find signs of that. The claim is that Floyd died due to [positional asphyxia:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_asphyxia) > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Positional asphyxia, also known as postural asphyxia, is a form of asphyxia which occurs when someone’s position prevents the person from breathing adequately. Positional asphyxia may be a factor for people who die suddenly in a hog-tie restraint by police, prison (corrections) officers, military or health care staff. > . > . > . > Positional asphyxia is a potential danger of some physical restraint techniques. > . > . > . > Research has suggested that restraining a person in a face-down position is likely to cause greater restriction of breathing than restraining a person face-up. Multiple cases have been associated with the hogtie or hobble prone restraint position. Many law enforcement and health personnel are now taught to avoid restraining people face-down or to do so only for a very short period of time. > > Risk factors which may increase the chance of death include prolonged (particularly resisted) restraint, obesity, prior cardiac or respiratory problems, and the use of illicit drugs such as cocaine. Other issues in the way the subject is restrained can also increase the risk of death, for example kneeling or otherwise placing weight on the subject and particularly any type of restraint hold around the subject’s neck. Research measuring the effect of restraint positions on lung function suggests that restraint which involves bending the restrained person or placing body weight on them has more effect on their breathing than face-down positioning alone. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15897 "2020-06-01T12:53:52Z")
From Matt Yglesias: "Black officers and white officers behave similarly in white or integrated neighborhoods. But when working in heavily black neighborhoods, a white officer is five times more likely to use force as a black one." [https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1267147247030075394](https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1267147247030075394) And: “Bigger racial disparity in arrests when there’s a white sheriff than a black sheriff” [https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1267146496727801856](https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1267146496727801856) ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15898 "2020-06-01T20:46:16Z")
[Independent autopsy of George Floyd contradicts official report](https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-06-01/george-floyd-independent-autopsy-asphyxia) > [@](#): > > \*By ASSOCIATED PRESS > JUNE 1, 202012:51 PM > MINNEAPOLIS — \*An autopsy commissioned for George Floyd’s family found that he died of asphyxiation due to neck and back compression when a Minneapolis police officer held his knee on Floyd’s neck for several minutes and ignored his cries of distress, the family’s attorneys said Monday. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15899 "2020-06-01T21:26:28Z")
Regarding the autopsy and the idiotic and unsupported claim made by one person in this thread that “the cause of death seems to be a drug overdose,” it’s worth looking at [this discussion](https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/30/opinions/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-criminal-complaint-honig/index.html) of the charging document by former state and federal prosecutor, Elie Honig. Honig says, among other things: > [@](#): > > **The complaint notes that “the combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.”** > > “Restrained” is a charitable way to describe what Chauvin did to Floyd on video; most would call that something closer to “crushed” or at least “pinned down.” And in my 14 years as a prosecutor (or my 45 years of life), I’ve never heard of a “potential intoxicant.” Did Floyd have intoxicants in his system or not? A basic toxicology test should answer that question conclusively, and there is no excuse for prosecutors to not know the answer, or to state it ambiguously, four days after Floyd’s death. In any event, even if intoxicants and health conditions somehow contributed to Floyd’s death, it does not matter legally. So long as Chauvin’s actions were even a contributory cause of Floyd’s death, then Chauvin is legally responsible. If Floyd would be alive if not for Chauvin’s actions, then Chauvin can be convicted. More generally, Honig makes the point that the charging document seems to try and make Floyd seem more threatening, and to downplay some of the warnings that police had about his condition. For example: > [@](#): > > the prosecutors inexplicably omit some of the most important lines Floyd uttered in the video: “Don’t kill me,” and “I’m about to die.” Floyd’s statements are particularly crucial because they unequivocally put Chauvin on notice that Floyd was in mortal danger – yet Chauvin continued kneeling on his neck. The complaint also goes out of its way to note the Floyd was over 6 feet tall, and weighed over 200 pounds (irrelevant), and that Floyd “actively resisted being handcuffed,” which is not only unconfirmed, but which is also irrelevant to what happened AFTER he was in handcuffs and under police control. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15900 "2020-06-02T06:12:58Z")
Cop Involved in Fatal Louisville Shooting Mocked Protester in Facebook Post > **[Cop Involved in Fatal Louisville Shooting Mocked Protester in Facebook Post](https://www.thedailybeast.com/katie-crews-cop-involved-in-fatal-louisville-shooting-of-david-mcatee-mocked-protester-in-facebook-post)** > > Meanwhile, the FBI has opened up an investigation into the Monday morning shooting of chef David McAtee. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15901 "2020-06-02T12:19:46Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Cop Involved in Fatal Louisville Shooting Mocked Protester in Facebook Post > [Katie Crews, Cop Involved in Fatal Louisville Shooting of David McAtee, Mocked Protester in Facebook Post](https://www.thedailybeast.com/katie-crews-cop-involved-in-fatal-louisville-shooting-of-david-mcatee-mocked-protester-in-facebook-post) As a white male, it is nice to know that being an asshole cop isn’t limited to my demographic. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/15902 "2020-06-02T19:03:55Z")
The Australian Embassy is demanding an investigation into DC police attacking Australian reporters. > **[Australia will investigate attack on journalists by police in Washington |...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/media/australia-journalists-protests-washington/index.html)** > > Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison has called for an investigation after two of the country's journalists were attacked by police in Washington DC on Monday. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=794) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=796)