# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 805
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16083 "2020-06-14T13:34:11Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Long Island cop walking shoulder to shoulder with a protester, bumping into him along the way, then when that doesn’t get a reaction out of him, he steps in front of him and comes to a full stop, forcing the protester to run into him. The other cops immediately attack the guy and throw him to the ground, presumably charging him with assaulting the cop who stepped in front of him. > [https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1271832001364979716](https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1271832001364979716) … and they will get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16084 "2020-06-14T13:40:26Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Is this a problem? > > [California cops under fire after video shows them tackling, putting bag over head of 12-year-old](https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-cops-fire-video-shows-tackling-putting-bag/story?id=63197598) > > Doesn’t seem like a problem to me, but a lot of people are mad about it. From the video (which I had to play with the sound off), the cops seem pretty gentle with the kid. The spit shield was evidently needed and looks to have been used properly. OK, exactly what did the 12 year old kid do that was illegal? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16085 "2020-06-14T15:34:53Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > From the article I read in The NY Times, this particular incident might not advance the cause against unnecessary police violence. When someone steals a taser gun from a cop and then points it at the cop, they’re taking a big risk, whatever the color of their skin. No, the cop shouldn’t have shot to kill — and I’m pretty sure it’s a bit less likely they would have, had the taser-pointer been white — and yes, this is another example of a cop exaggerating the threat to their own life in the heat of the moment… > > …BUT, this incident does muddy the waters for “the cause,” just a bit. It SHOULDN’T — it doesn’t actually detract from the truth and necessity of the cause, not one iota — but I’m still concerned it might take just a little wind out of the sails, right when things could keep building momentum toward even deeper real change, OR things could start to fizzle out. (Real change, in active policy as well as opinions and attitudes, has already happened, rather impressively, but it needs to go further still.) I’m not sure why they chased him at all. They had his car, his license plate, and probably his driver’s license (since he failed a sobriety test), so why not just calmly arrest him at his home (driving drunk, resisting arrest, and whatever else). ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16086 "2020-06-14T16:25:17Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > When someone steals a taser gun from a cop and then points it at the cop, they’re taking a big risk, whatever the color of their skin. No, the cop shouldn’t have shot to kill Hmm. I dunno. Consider this scenario: 1. Suspect takes taser from cop. 2. Suspect points taser at cop, squeezes trigger, and tasers cop. 3. Cop is disabled due to taser. 4. Suspect takes gun from cop. 5. Suspect shoots cop. I’m not necessarily justifying the cop’s actions here, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16087 "2020-06-14T18:07:46Z")
Tazers are deadly weapons in their own right, not anything like as lethal as a pistol but deadly all the same. > **[Reuters | Breaking International News & Views](https://www.reuters.com?edition-redirect=uk)** > > Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage. Pull one on an armed cop and you are not leaving many options, you just got yourself into a firefight where you’ve got the least powerful option. No surprise the perp ended up dead, none at all - deserved? Hard to prove otherwise really - you would not step out in front of an oncoming semi even if you had the crossing lights in your favour, why would you point a deadly weapon at a police office armed with a handgun? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16088 "2020-06-14T18:16:32Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Tazers are deadly weapons in their own right, not anything like as lethal as a pistol but deadly all the same. > > [https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-taser-deaths-insight/as-death-toll-keeps-rising-u-s-communities-start-rethinking-taser-use-idUKKCN1PT0YY](https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-taser-deaths-insight/as-death-toll-keeps-rising-u-s-communities-start-rethinking-taser-use-idUKKCN1PT0YY) > > Pull one on an armed cop and you are not leaving many options, you just got yourself into a firefight where you’ve got the least powerful option. > > No surprise the perp ended up dead, none at all - deserved? Hard to prove otherwise really - you would not step out in front of an oncoming semi even if you had the crossing lights in your favour, why would you point a deadly weapon at a police office armed with a handgun? Why do you completely disregard _when_ he ended up dead? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16089 "2020-06-14T18:16:52Z")
Seattle cops running into protesters from behind with their bikes, then arresting them for assault. > **[r/PublicFreakout - SPD Riding a bike into a protester then arresting him](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/h8ufog/spd_riding_a_bike_into_a_protester_then_arresting/)** > > 110,699 votes and 3,491 comments so far on Reddit ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16090 "2020-06-14T18:22:10Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Tazers are deadly weapons in their own right, not anything like as lethal as a pistol but deadly all the same. > > [https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-taser-deaths-insight/as-death-toll-keeps-rising-u-s-communities-start-rethinking-taser-use-idUKKCN1PT0YY](https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-taser-deaths-insight/as-death-toll-keeps-rising-u-s-communities-start-rethinking-taser-use-idUKKCN1PT0YY) > > Pull one on an armed cop and you are not leaving many options, you just got yourself into a firefight where you’ve got the least powerful option. > > No surprise the perp ended up dead, none at all - deserved? Hard to prove otherwise really - you would not step out in front of an oncoming semi even if you had the crossing lights in your favour, why would you point a deadly weapon at a police office armed with a handgun? I don’t typically give knee-jerk reactions for or against the police - it depends on the circumstances of the case. In this particular case, the suspect was a danger to the public by getting behind the wheel while drunk - so drunk that he passed out in his car. The police had every reason to remove him from the streets, by force if he resisted and refused to comply, which he did. He escalated the situation, and if that wasn’t bad enough, he physically assaulted the arresting officer, took his taser, ran off into the night, and turned around to point the taser at the officers in pursuit. I can see why the officers were perhaps pumped up on their own adrenaline and fired shots in response. I don’t see how a jury convicts these officers. Still, that is not to say we can’t rethink how police train and respond in these situations. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16091 "2020-06-14T18:25:05Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Seattle cops running into protesters from behind with their bikes, then arresting them for assault. > [Reddit - Dive into anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/h8ufog/spd_riding_a_bike_into_a_protester_then_arresting/) That’s an older one from Dec 2019… > **[Video: Shocking moment Seattle police bike into pedestrian and arrest him |...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2071634/Video-Shocking-moment-Seattle-police-bike-pedestrian-arrest-him.html)** > > Cell phone video captures the shocking moment Seattle police officers bike into pedestrians. They then hop off their bikes and arrest one of them, saying the man had pushed the officer. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16092 "2020-06-14T19:17:35Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > That’s an older one from Dec 2019… > [Video: Shocking moment Seattle police bike into pedestrian and arrest him | Daily Mail Online](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2071634/Video-Shocking-moment-Seattle-police-bike-pedestrian-arrest-him.html) Damn. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16093 "2020-06-14T20:16:46Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Hmm. I dunno. Consider this scenario: > > 1. Suspect takes taser from cop. > 2. Suspect points taser at cop, squeezes trigger, and tasers cop. > 3. Cop is disabled due to taser. > 4. Suspect takes gun from cop. > 5. Suspect shoots cop. > > I’m not necessarily justifying the cop’s actions here, BTW. Makes sense. This is not at all a clear-cut case of police overreaction. (Separately, RitterSport makes a good point that the chase seemed unnecessary to begin with). ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16094 "2020-06-14T20:29:53Z")
> [@](#): > > So the police lost control of the situation in Atlanta. By “losing control” I mean the protestors wouldn’t listen or respect their “authoritay”, which to cops is one of the worst things ever. So they called in the National Guard. You know what the National Guard did? They didn’t assist the police at all. They pretty much ignored the police and instead they did the Macarena. Video at link: [https://m.imgur.com/t/unmuted/3gaTKG3](https://m.imgur.com/t/unmuted/3gaTKG3) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16095 "2020-06-14T20:38:33Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Hmm. I dunno. Consider this scenario: > > 1. Suspect takes taser from cop. > 2. Suspect points taser at cop, squeezes trigger, and tasers cop. > 3. Cop is disabled due to taser. > 4. Suspect takes gun from cop. > 5. Suspect shoots cop. > > I’m not necessarily justifying the cop’s actions here, BTW. Ok then, explain [quote=“Crafter\_Man, post:16086, topic:700942”] 1. Suspect takes taser from cop [QUOTE] how a police officer allows this to happen ITFP. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16096 "2020-06-14T22:15:32Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > he physically assaulted the arresting officer, took his taser, ran off into the night, and turned around to point the taser at the officers in pursuit. Do I read this correct… officers… plural? The drunk ass criminal has a single shot weapon with an extremely short range, is running away, and is pursued by multiple officers with firearms, and the only choice here is to kill him? Got it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16097 "2020-06-14T22:27:06Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Do I read this correct… officers… plural? There is bodycam video that shows an officer attempting to handcuff the suspect. _Shows the officer_ means that it had to come from a bodycam not on the officer engaged with the suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16098 "2020-06-14T22:32:07Z")
Yet Another Cop Team Resigns En Masse. [An entire South Florida SWAT team resigned over criticism from 22-year-old vice mayor who was elected while a student](https://news.yahoo.com/entire-south-florida-swat-team-033907848.html), Charles Davis, _Business Insider_ (as reposted at Yahoo), June 13, 2020. Small-town SWAT team, with history of night-time no-knock raids for small amounts of drugs, killed a guy (and his dog!) in one such a few years ago. Now, the vice-mayor is critical of them. So the entire SWAT team resigned their positions in protest. (Note, they didn’t quit the force. Just quit the SWAT team.) ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16099 "2020-06-14T22:37:25Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Tazers are deadly weapons in their own right, not anything like as lethal as a pistol but deadly all the same. > > [https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-taser-deaths-insight/as-death-toll-keeps-rising-u-s-communities-start-rethinking-taser-use-idUKKCN1PT0YY](https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-taser-deaths-insight/as-death-toll-keeps-rising-u-s-communities-start-rethinking-taser-use-idUKKCN1PT0YY) > > Pull one on an armed cop and you are not leaving many options, you just got yourself into a firefight where you’ve got the least powerful option. > > No surprise the perp ended up dead, none at all - deserved? Hard to prove otherwise really - you would not step out in front of an oncoming semi even if you had the crossing lights in your favour, why would you point a deadly weapon at a police office armed with a handgun? In the state of Georgia, a taser is defined as a non-lethal weapon. Does that change somehow when the cop is the victim as opposed to the taser wielder? And yeah, there were two cops on the scene. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16100 "2020-06-14T23:03:24Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > In the state of Georgia, a taser is defined as a non-lethal weapon. Does that change somehow when the cop is the victim as opposed to the taser wielder? > > And yeah, there were two cops on the scene. To play Devils Advocate, it is lethally dangerous if you’re rendered unconscious, with your weapons right there where the taserer can grab them. You can’t know for certain the other cop will have you covered. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16101 "2020-06-14T23:07:22Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Tazers are deadly weapons in their own right, not anything like as lethal as a pistol but deadly all the same. > > [https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-taser-deaths-insight/as-death-toll-keeps-rising-u-s-communities-start-rethinking-taser-use-idUKKCN1PT0YY](https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-taser-deaths-insight/as-death-toll-keeps-rising-u-s-communities-start-rethinking-taser-use-idUKKCN1PT0YY) > > Pull one on an armed cop and you are not leaving many options, you just got yourself into a firefight where you’ve got the least powerful option. > > No surprise the perp ended up dead, none at all - deserved? Hard to prove otherwise really - you would not step out in front of an oncoming semi even if you had the crossing lights in your favour, why would you point a deadly weapon at a police office armed with a handgun? This doesn’t make any sense. Where did Rayshard Brooks get a Taser in the first place? He wasn’t just walking around (or driving around) with one; there was a Taser on the scene because a police officer not only was carrying one but _**drew it and used it (unsuccessfully) on Brooks**_. What justified the officer using this allegedly deadly force at that point? Brooks was pretty clearly being uncooperative, but at that point he doesn’t seem to have been doing anything (or failing to do anything) that would have justified the police in just shooting him. Presumably, if the use of the Taser had been successful–and Brooks had been subdued and handcuffed and taken into custody–and someone had complained, the police would have explained that one of the officers had used his service-issue [del]nonlethal[/del] less-than-lethal device to gain compliance from the subject, who was then transported to the police station and blah blah blah. But then, when Brooks grabs the Taser–and _ **of course** _ he shouldn’t have done that, or fought with the cops, or driven drunk, or fallen asleep in the drive-through lane at a Wendy’s–NOW all of a sudden a Taser is a deadly weapon! And the cops have NO CHOICE but to shoot and kill the man who is brandishing the same gizmo that _ **they themselves were using minutes before** _ on a person who was being belligerent and uncooperative, but hardly posed a threat to the lives of the officers or innocent third parties that would have justified the use of deadly force. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16102 "2020-06-14T23:12:25Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > To play Devils Advocate, it is lethally dangerous if you’re rendered unconscious, with your weapons right there where the taserer can grab them. You can’t know for certain the other cop will have you covered. _ **If** _ the guy who just grabbed your Taser actually hits you with it, and _ **if** _ it actually renders you unconscious or seriously incapacitates you (and it obviously didn’t on Brooks), and _ **if** _ Brooks then gets your gun, and _ **if** _ your partner is unable to do anything about any of this (including justifiably shooting Brooks _ **after** _ he has a real gun–or even appears to be making a hypothetical serious grab for the gun of the hypothetically-incapacitated police officer)… That’s way too many _ **if** _s and hypotheticals to justify shooting someone dead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=804) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=806)