# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 807
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16123 "2020-06-15T16:39:20Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > He committed a crime, but he was NOT an emergent danger to anyone, so violence should be way down on the list of choices. But it isn’t, because officers are trained to fight first and talk later. He was a drunk man behind the wheel of a car - that’s pretty much the working definition of an emergent danger, especially in the United States. He should definitely have been arrested, or at least kept in the drunk tank until he sobered up. He should \*not \*have been shot. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16124 "2020-06-15T17:13:17Z")
This is fucked up. Today, the Supreme Court denied cert in all of the eight qualified immunity cases that it was considering. I thought that the court might finally be willing to look at this egregious doctrine, especially since there is massive support for limiting or eliminating qualified immunity on all sides of the ideological spectrum, and also because some of the specific cases up for review had such terrible facts But no, they punted. And the only justice willing to dissent from the cert denial was Clarence Thomas. Not even Sonia Sotomayor, who has been the other justice to most openly express doubts about qualified immunity, signed onto Thomas’s dissent. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16125 "2020-06-15T17:18:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > He was a drunk man behind the wheel of a car - that’s pretty much the working definition of an emergent danger, especially in the United States. He should definitely have been arrested, or at least kept in the drunk tank until he sobered up. > > He should \*not \*have been shot. I agree he should have been arrested, but not shot. But he fled on foot. The police could have had his car impounded and prevented him from getting back behind the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16126 "2020-06-15T18:25:41Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Bowie, Jagger, and all Van Halen got away with it, simply because they’re white! If they were black, they’d be arrested for dancing, plus incitement to dance. Don’t forget that young antifa boy, Kevin Bacon. And don’t think I’m not looking at you, Gene Kelly. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16127 "2020-06-15T20:43:19Z")
Not a cops -v- civilians incident yet, but definitely a law enforcement WTF moment. [L.A. schools police will return grenade launchers but keep rifles, armored vehicle](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-schools-weapons-20140917-story.html) I went into the article wondering why a school PD would need MRAP (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected) trucks. If I squint enough I can sorta see their explanation, but it still smacks a bit too much of militarization of the police force. > [@](#): > > The Oakland School Police Department received a “tactical utility truck,” according to the state. The department remodeled the vehicle, which is used as an attraction at school events and parades, Sgt. Barhin Bhatt said. > > “It’s a rolling public relations vehicle,” Bhatt said. “We end up having to bring out a gas can and jumper cables every time we want to drive it — it’s only used twice a year.” I didn’t want to know how they justified grenade launchers. I feared muscle strain from the eye-roll it would have produced. Yes, I know they can launch “non-lethal ordnance”, but it’ll still boil down to “look how big my dick is!” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16128 "2020-06-16T01:44:26Z")
Cross-posted from Stupid Gun News: > [@Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9263): > > Here is a story that is a little different than most of the ones posted here. [The story](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/sheriff-apologizes-to-black-pastor-in-virginia-after-arrest/2020/06/15/7ad8a218-af06-11ea-98b5-279a6479a1e4_story.html) is from the Washington Post, but is behind a paywall so you might not be able to see it. > > In Woodstock, Va., a man was at a building where he owns a rental apartment and several other people who did not live there were bringing a refrigerator and putting in his dumpster. He asked them to leave, and they became verbally abusive. They left and came back with more people, attacked him physically, and threatened to kill him. He pulled out his legal concealed handgun to hold off the attackers and called 911. > > Now here comes the stupid part. The sheriff’s department shows up. They see a black man brandishing a gun at several white people, and arrested the property owner–the black man. The white attackers waved as the police drove him away. > > Once someone figured out what happened, the sheriff’s department apologized, charges were dropped, and now the white attackers are in jail without bond. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16129 "2020-06-16T14:51:20Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I agree he should have been arrested, but not shot. But he fled on foot. The police could have had his car impounded and prevented him from getting back behind the wheel. Impound the car, issue an arrest warrant for drunk driving, resisting arrest, stealing equipment, and whatever else, then pick him up whenever he bumps into the system later (like when he tries to get his car back). Shooting him in the back as he’s running away with a discharged taser doesn’t protect anyone except the ego of the cop who’s taser was stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16130 "2020-06-16T15:13:38Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > Not a cops -v- civilians incident yet, but definitely a law enforcement WTF moment. > > [L.A. schools police will return grenade launchers but keep rifles, armored vehicle](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-schools-weapons-20140917-story.html) Just FYI: that article is from 2014. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16131 "2020-06-16T15:52:25Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Shooting him in the back as he’s running away with a discharged taser doesn’t protect anyone except the ego of the cop who’s taser was stolen. It also endangers others, apparently a stray bullet from this shooting hit a nearby car with kids in it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16132 "2020-06-16T16:43:10Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > This is fucked up. > > Today, the Supreme Court denied cert in all of the eight qualified immunity cases that it was considering. I thought that the court might finally be willing to look at this egregious doctrine, especially since there is massive support for limiting or eliminating qualified immunity on all sides of the ideological spectrum, and also because some of the specific cases up for review had such terrible facts > > But no, they punted. And the only justice willing to dissent from the cert denial was Clarence Thomas. Not even Sonia Sotomayor, who has been the other justice to most openly express doubts about qualified immunity, signed onto Thomas’s dissent. Haven’t looked at the case, but I think they’re saying it’s a problem with a legislative solution. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16133 "2020-06-16T21:40:52Z")
So they’re saying there’s already a solution in place? Or that it needs to be resolved by the legislature? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16134 "2020-06-16T21:51:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Haven’t looked at the case, but I think they’re saying it’s a problem with a legislative solution. That _ **might** _ be what they’re thinking, but they’re not _ **saying** _ any such thing. When the Supreme Court rejects a cert petition, it doesn’t usually give a reason for the rejection. Qualified Immunity certainly _ **could** _ be fixed with legislation, although there are already Republicans in Congress who are saying that any bill ending Qualified Immunity would be DOA. [Tim Scott (R-SC) says](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tim-scott-police-reform-bill-qualified-immunity-face-the-nation/) that it would be a “poison pill” to any police reform bill, and that Trump has already made clear he won’t sign any bill ending it. But why should the court leave it to Congress? As it stands, Qualified Immunity is a doctrine created out of whole cloth by the Supreme Court itself. It has no basis in the Constitution, and none in the law (Civil Rights Act of 1871) that allows people to sue government officials for deprivation of Constitutional rights. These cases appealed to the Supreme Court attracted _ **amicus curiae** _ briefs from individuals and organizations on a wider range of the political spectrum than just about any I’ve ever seen before, urging the court to rethink the unqualified impunity that its terrible doctrine hands to police departments. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16135 "2020-06-16T22:06:38Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It also endangers others, apparently a stray bullet from this shooting hit a nearby car with kids in it. That’s OK, if the cops who decided to recklessly shoot an unarmed man running away from them in the back hit a kid in a nearby car, they should charge the law breaker with felony murder - like someone has already argued, the shooting is all his fault anyway! The fact that cops running around shooting up the town like they’re in a cowboy movie is much more dangerous than the drunk guy running away with a discharged taser and impounded car doesn’t appear to register at all to the the LEO-defenders here. Completely ignoring the morality of shooting an unarmed man in the back, from a simple, practical standpoint of public safety, the cops involved chose to make the situation much more dangerous for innocent bystanders. The out of control macho ‘shoot first and keep firing until the mag is empty’ culture in so many police departments isn’t just a danger to criminals, it’s extremely dangerous to the people cops claim to be protecting when they apprehend criminals. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16136 "2020-06-17T03:30:43Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > … The out of control macho ‘shoot first and keep firing until the mag is empty’ culture in so many police departments isn’t just a danger to criminals, it’s extremely dangerous to the people cops claim to be protecting when they apprehend criminals. [Most importantly](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/31/journalists-blinded-injured-arrested-covering-george-floyd-protests/5299374002/), you should avoid trying to provide press coverage of police activities, because that will result more of the random ordnance being directed toward you. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16137 "2020-06-17T17:05:02Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > When I first heard of the LVNR, I thought that it was a euphemism that George Carlin, rest his soul, would have been proud of. People who teach the technique claim it’s different than other nerve or blood strangles like a rear naked choke, but I am not practiced enough in things like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to see the differences. Shrug. I googled and saw a video of it. I took karate back in the early 90s. They taught this hold but stressed, over and over again, that it could _easily_ result in death and should only be used when you feel your life is threatened. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16138 "2020-06-17T19:55:25Z")
Here’s an older video of British police dealing with a man wielding a machete in the street. It ended peacefully without a single gun even being drawn, but you can imagine what might have happened in a large American city. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/9mzPj_IaMzY/maxresdefault.jpg "UK Cops Disarm Man Wielding a Machete | Firsthand | CBC") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mzPj_IaMzY) ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16139 "2020-06-17T20:02:23Z")
Here’s an older video of British police dealing with a man wielding a machete in the street. It ended peacefully without a single gun even being drawn, but you can imagine what might have happened in a large American city. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/9mzPj_IaMzY/maxresdefault.jpg "UK Cops Disarm Man Wielding a Machete | Firsthand | CBC") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mzPj_IaMzY) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16140 "2020-06-17T20:21:53Z")
[Felony murder and 10 other charges for former-Officer Rolfe](https://apnews.com/f3c3747e6d8c0bd63ba7c57c6d363868?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow). I guess the DA disagrees with all the bullshit attempts to justify the shooting. Let’s hope the state has the balls (and the appropriate evidence) to make the charges stick. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16141 "2020-06-17T20:28:06Z")
Meanwhile, in Albuquerque, there was a protest [demanding the removal of](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/06/16/albuquerque-protest-civil-guard-stephen-baca-arrested/3198382001/) a statue of asshole Conquistador Juan de Oñate. A gaggle of ammosexual vigilantes (known more sarcastically as a “citizen militia”), the “NM Civil Guard” also attended, and as the protesters made efforts to topple Juan, there was some scuffling between the two groups. One of the protesters ended up in the hospital in critical condition from a bullet, one of the vigilantes arrested. The city has consented to evict Juan. The linked story includes this paragraph: _The presence of armed, far-right militia groups and counter-protesters at various Black Lives Matter rallies in Albuquerque has drawn scrutiny from protest organizers. A video of Albuquerque police speaking with counter-protesters, as well as a dispatch recording, per KUNM, in which an officer referred to armed civilians as “friendlies,” has also raised questions over police coordination.​_ ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/16142 "2020-06-17T20:39:18Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Meanwhile, in Albuquerque, there was a protest [demanding the removal of](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/06/16/albuquerque-protest-civil-guard-stephen-baca-arrested/3198382001/) a statue of asshole Conquistador Juan de Oñate. A gaggle of ammosexual vigilantes (known more sarcastically as a “citizen militia”), the “NM Civil Guard” also attended, and as the protesters made efforts to topple Juan, there was some scuffling between the two groups. One of the protesters ended up in the hospital in critical condition from a bullet, one of the vigilantes arrested. The city has consented to evict Juan. > > The linked story includes this paragraph: > _The presence of armed, far-right militia groups and counter-protesters at various Black Lives Matter rallies in Albuquerque has drawn scrutiny from protest organizers. A video of Albuquerque police speaking with counter-protesters, as well as a dispatch recording, per KUNM, in which an officer referred to armed civilians as “friendlies,” has also raised questions over police coordination.​_ The shooter is a former city council candidate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=806) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=808)