# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 86
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1701 "2015-04-12T20:06:28Z")
> [@camille](#): > > **Another Day, Another Video, Another Name Goes Hashtag: #Eric Harris** > > [New Video Shows Unarmed Tulsa, OK Man Shot and Killed](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-shows-tulsa-man-shot-deputy-meant-stun-article-1.2181787): To be fair, the article makes clear that the officer didn’t make a regular mistake; he made an _inadvertent_ mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1702 "2015-04-12T21:35:07Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > To be fair, the article makes clear that the officer didn’t make a regular mistake; he made an _inadvertent_ mistake. Chief Wiggum over there didn’t mean to shoot anybody. JEEZ! Are you always right about _everything_!? Quit nagging! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1703 "2015-04-13T00:50:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It is messed up that they have a 73-year-old cop chasing down suspects. And it seems to me that the guy was already down when he was “tased”. > > I’m guessing they still had a grand retirement send-off for ole boy, though. Actually, I’ve seen him described by some sources as a “volunteer patrolman,” so that may mean he isn’t even actually a trained officer…? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1704 "2015-04-13T04:02:19Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Actually, I’ve seen him described by some sources as a “volunteer patrolman,” so that may mean he isn’t even actually a trained officer…? Many municipalities these days use the services of “Volunteer Police”, usually structured around [the Volunteers in Police Service (VIPS) Program](http://www.theiacp.org/VIPS) which comes from the International Association of Chiefs of Police. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1705 "2015-04-13T09:59:55Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Many municipalities these days use the services of “Volunteer Police”, usually structured around [the Volunteers in Police Service (VIPS) Program](http://www.theiacp.org/VIPS) which comes from the International Association of Chiefs of Police. Let us hope a certain fellow named George Zimmerman doesn’t sign up for something like this. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1706 "2015-04-13T12:40:23Z")
Haters got to hate, but I wish the libtards would stop picking on Robert Bates, a fine American, still serving his country despite advancing age. First of all, he did apologize: [QUOTE=Robert Bates] Oh, I shot him. I’m sorry. [/QUOTE] Second, Mr. Bates _was_ an experienced police officer, working for an entire year. Yes, his career as regular policeman was 50 years ago, but once you learn how to whistle (or taser\*) you don’t forget. More importantly, he “served as chairman of the Re-elect Sheriff (Stanley) Glanz Committee in 2012 and donated $2,500 to Glanz’s campaign that year.” Moreover, the shooting was endorsed by the other officers present: > [@](#): > > Harris screams, “He shot me. Oh, my God,” and a deputy replies: “You fucking ran.” > > Harris then says he’s losing his breath. A deputy replies, “Fuck your breath.” ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1707 "2015-04-13T15:26:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Haters got to hate, but I wish the libtards would stop picking on Robert Bates, a fine American, still serving his country despite advancing age. > > First of all, he did apologize: > Second, Mr. Bates _was_ an experienced police officer, working for an entire year. Yes, his career as regular policeman was 50 years ago, but once you learn how to whistle (or taser\*) you don’t forget. More importantly, he “served as chairman of the Re-elect Sheriff (Stanley) Glanz Committee in 2012 and donated $2,500 to Glanz’s campaign that year.” > > Moreover, the shooting was endorsed by the other officers present: Hehe good stuff. Yours is way better than mine. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1708 "2015-04-13T16:19:34Z")
And another cop in that video obviously misspoke when she(?) told the murder victim to stop fighting. She clearly intended to say something like “Stop lying on the ground being shot.” ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1709 "2015-04-13T18:10:17Z")
I’m amused by Bates dropping his gun on the ground. Must be all his training kicking in. “Whuh? Tasers don’t go bang like this! GET AWAY FROM ME YOU DEVIL THING!!!” The guy was completely out of breath and on the ground. Just straight gave up. Fucking idiot insurance salesman supercop wannabe. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1710 "2015-04-13T18:59:35Z")
What I don’t understand is why even tasing would have been reasonable. It’s hard to know for sure, but it seems to me Harris was already on the ground, pinned down by a football team of police officers, when the gunshot goes off. And if he had tazed the guy, wouldn’t the other police officers had caught some of the buzz (or whatever it is called)? I’m all for citizens volunteering for the benefit of their community, but they shouldn’t be in situations where they can kill someone (whether suspect, a bystander, another officer, or themselves). Seems to me that opens up all kinds of liability issues for the police department. If this officer had been killed in the line of duty, would his family be entitled to the same benefits as a paid officer’s? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1711 "2015-04-13T19:15:21Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > What I don’t understand is why even tasing would have been reasonable… Mr. Bates would REALLY like to tell us all about it but sadly for him his attorney won’t let him. Shucks. > [@The Guardian](#): > > “It was me,” Bates said in an interview on Friday with the Tulsa World. “My attorney has advised me not to comment. As much as I would like to, I can’t.” And the spin is already heavy with this one. To be further reviewed pending new evidence, of course. > [@](#): > > After the gun transaction, officers attempted to place Harris under arrest, the police report said, but he ran away. A deputy got into a struggle with Harris that “went to the ground”, the report said. It said “his hand was near his waistband”. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1712 "2015-04-13T19:22:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > What I don’t understand is why even tasing would have been reasonable. Give a guy a taser, and he wants to use it. It seems to me that treating this as a “mistake” is completely wrong. Pulling out your gun and shooting someone is no ordinary mistake. It’s a textbook case of [involuntary manslaughter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter#Involuntary_manslaughter). ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1713 "2015-04-13T20:18:31Z")
I wonder if Mr. Bates will testify at his second-degree manslaughter trial. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1714 "2015-04-13T20:32:09Z")
If precedent is anything to go by, he’ll get involuntary manslaughter at most, that being the established punishment for a white police officer shooting a black man in the back when he’s lying face down on the ground. > **[Killing of Oscar Grant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant)** > > Oscar Grant III was a 22-year-old African-American man who was killed in the early morning hours of New Year's Day 2009 by BART Police Officer Johannes Mehserle in Oakland, California. Responding to reports of a fight on a crowded Bay Area Rapid Transit train returning from San Francisco, BART Police officers detained Grant and several other passengers on the platform at the Fruitvale BART Station. BART officer Anthony Pirone kneed Grant in the head and forced Grant to lie face down on the plat... ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1715 "2015-04-13T20:45:30Z")
Essentially, second-degree would presumably be the OK equivalent (culpable negligence element). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1716 "2015-04-13T20:48:12Z")
Well how about that, second degree manslaughter for… shooting someone dead. On purpose. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1717 "2015-04-13T20:52:43Z")
I have some friends who are officers in Tulsa (and the surrounding towns), and I’ll be very interested to see if they offer any commentary on this story. I’m sure it will be fascinating and even-handed. :rolleyes: One of them posted a Facebook status on how, after his shift was over, he was going to fill up SuperSoakers with urine and take aim at protesters, back in the “Occupy \_\_\_\_” days. I was shocked that he didn’t think twice about saying such a thing in a public forum, but instead the post gathered a bunch of “likes” and support from his other friends saying that they’d join him. This guy was an actual mall cop right after high school & before joining the force, and has the stereotypical mindset & demeanor of someone who wasn’t really respected growing up, so he wanted a position of authority so he could feel powerful. I’ve always wondered if he’d be involved in a shooting. When I saw the headline, I half-expected to find mention of his name. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1718 "2015-04-13T20:57:17Z")
Haven’t seen a link to [this](http://www.cox.com/myconnection/today/news/national/article.cox?articleId=04ca4ce4340e4fdda2b60d0b490a6199&moduleType=apNews) story yet but apparently everyone already knows. Posted **jimbuff314** , living in (regrettably, at the moment) Tulsa. ETA : Sorry. Bates charged with 2nd degree manslaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1719 "2015-04-13T21:05:59Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Can the police require you to exit your vehicle if you’re not under arrest? Does ‘I smell marijuana’ suffice for probable cause? The police probably were just looking for an excuse to steal the car. Asset forfeiture, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1720 "2015-04-13T21:09:17Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Let us hope a certain fellow named George Zimmerman doesn’t sign up for something like this. Pfftt… he was the coordinator of his _neighborhood watch_ man! That was all the power and respect he needed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=85) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=87)