# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 92
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1821 "2015-04-15T16:42:58Z")
somebody link to it… ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1822 "2015-04-15T16:59:30Z")
> **[Former NYPD officer dubbed 'Robocop' disarms gunman by ramming him with...](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/arizona-disarms-gunman-ramming-police-cruiser-article-1.2185534)** > > A former NYPD cop used his police cruiser to ram an armed suspect, ending an Arizona police chase that was caught on video. Armed villain on a crime spree is deliberately rammed by a police vehicle to eliminate the danger to the public. Lawyer claims the villain was suicidal and needed help. Police and the state call the policeman a hero. Villain survives and after hospitalisation is jailed. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1823 "2015-04-15T17:14:31Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > Yeah… I knew I would not be making a popular comment. > > In post 1813 FXMastermind said as part of a longer post "\*\*\*Police are a dangerous corrupt arm of a dangerous and corrupt system, and you don’t trust them, call them, and you really really try to never get arrested by them, for any reason. > > And there isn’t even an expectation of actual justice\*\*\*." > > To me - and I am willing to accept I am misunderstanding **FXMastermind** - that is moving towards a call for eliminating the police as an entity (especially where he suggests “you don’t call them”) which I believe to be an unrealistic goal. I think **Atomic Dog** will agree with me there. > > **mhendo, Typo Negative** : That was the post which particularly encouraged me to make my comment. That was the specific post I interpreted as a call to remove all policing although I did feel it was hyperbole. But I felt - even as hyperbole - the sentiment should be called out. I am sorry I offended you by doing so. > > TCMF-2F Don’t speak for me. I am in agreement with the other posters. No one in this thread is seriously calling for the elimination of the police, and for you to say that they are doing so is disingenuous on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1824 "2015-04-15T17:21:39Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > Yeah… I knew I would not be making a popular comment. I just hope you’re not pegging the value of your comment to its unpopularity. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1825 "2015-04-15T17:22:03Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > [Former NYPD officer dubbed ‘Robocop’ disarms gunman by ramming him with police cruiser, ending Arizona crime spree (VIDEO) – New York Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/arizona-disarms-gunman-ramming-police-cruiser-article-1.2185534) > > Armed villain on a crime spree is deliberately rammed by a police vehicle to eliminate the danger to the public. Lawyer claims the villain was suicidal and needed help. Police and the state call the policeman a hero. Villain survives and after hospitalisation is jailed. > > TCMF-2L I think the cop made the wrong call, it’s not good police work to plough into street corner like that, but fuck that Darwin award winner and his suicidal tendencies. He’s clearly a threat to the public. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1826 "2015-04-15T17:26:12Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > I think the cop made the wrong call, it’s not good police work to plough into street corner like that, but fuck that Darwin award winner and his suicidal tendencies. He’s clearly a threat to the public. Yeah, this is a tough one. I think perhaps it was the right call, but the perhaps the wrong way to go about it. For instance, disregarding the fellow officer’s call to stand down. It appears he decided on his own to hit the guy when perhaps he should have alerted his fellow officers to the plan. That said, it may have been the best way to resolve the situation short of shooting. The guy was obviously an immediate danger, you can’t get into taser range, and the car actually affords a degree of protection from potential gunfire. Short of sniping the guy, this was probably the least lethal method of taking him down. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1827 "2015-04-15T17:26:57Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > Yeah… I knew I would not be making a popular comment. > > In post 1813 FXMastermind said as part of a longer post "\*\*\*Police are a dangerous corrupt arm of a dangerous and corrupt system, and you don’t trust them, call them, and you really really try to never get arrested by them, for any reason. > > And there isn’t even an expectation of actual justice\*\*\*." It helps if you read the entire post, not just the part that got your knickers all twisted up: > [@FXMastermind](#): > > In fact, I can see how some populations in the US actually might view the courts and police in the US much like everybody views the courts and police in Mexico, Russia or China. Police are a dangerous corrupt arm of a dangerous and corrupt system… Note the phrase “some populations.” So he’s not talking about how he feels, or even how a significant portion of the population at large feels, but specifically about how _some subgroups_ feel about the police. And even then, extrapolating from that to “We shouldn’t have police at all,” is an enormous leap that’s all but entirely unsupported by the post you were partially quoting. ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1828 "2015-04-15T18:08:43Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > Don’t speak for me. I am in agreement with the other posters. No one in this thread is seriously calling for the elimination of the police, and for you to say that they are doing so is disingenuous on your part. **AtomicDog**. I never intended to give the impression I was speaking for you. If I had a time machine I would go back and add a smiley to show it was (intended as) a harmless and light hearted comment. But I am sorry you interpreted it as misattributing comments as yours. I was not being disingenuous either but this is a public bulletin board, this is the pit and you can make such accusations about me as you please. TCMF-2F ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1829 "2015-04-15T18:24:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It helps if you read the entire post, not just the part that got your knickers all twisted up: > > Note the phrase “some populations.” So he’s not talking about how he feels, or even how a significant portion of the population at large feels, but specifically about how _some subgroups_ feel about the police. > > And even then, extrapolating from that to “We shouldn’t have police at all,” is an enormous leap that’s all but entirely unsupported by the post you were partially quoting. **Miller.** My underwear is fine but thank you for your concern. I don’t entirely follow your line of argument here. **FXMastermind** is talking about “some populations” - fine. You say that means he is not talking about himself. That doesn’t follow automatically to me. If you were to say “Some posters on SDMB are also mods” you would be talking about a sub-group, a minority sub-group however you would not be excluding yourself. You say he is not talking about a significant portion of the population. To me that doesn’t follow automatically either. Mathematically “several” minority sub-groups could total the majority of the population. You say extrapolating from groups (and I paraphrase here) who don’t trust the police, should not use the police whether witness or victim, don’t have any expectation of justice from the police doesn’t point towards a view the police are obsolete and should be done away with. I will respectfully disagree with you. Not knowing **FXMastermind** I chose to view their post as hyperbole but I felt the opinion espoused deserved calling out. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1830 "2015-04-15T18:26:26Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > …That said, it may have been the best way to resolve the situation short of shooting. The guy was obviously an immediate danger, you can’t get into taser range, and the car actually affords a degree of protection from potential gunfire. Short of sniping the guy, this was probably the least lethal method of taking him down. I agree – no doubt it was unorthodox, but I thought it was a good move considering the situation. BTW, other than being expensive, why aren’t at least the windows of police cruisers bullet-proof? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1831 "2015-04-15T18:43:31Z")
Can I hijack to a question on English usage? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by FXMastermind > > In fact, I can see how some populations in the US actually might view the courts and police in the US much like everybody views the courts and police in Mexico, Russia or China. Police are a dangerous corrupt arm of a dangerous and corrupt system… There is a full stop between “China” and “That.” To me that makes the second sentence a complete thought, not dependent on the prior sentence, though I realize there’s ambiguity. If I were writing this and wanted to make it clear that the second sentence was not my opinion, I’d replace “China. That” with “China; that” or “China. They think that” What do English usage experts think? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1832 "2015-04-15T18:45:38Z")
It was written poorly. But most people can grasp the essential thought. It’s not a stretch to view police as dangerous, criminal and something to be avoided at all cost. Just imagine you are in another country, or if in the US, you are yourself a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1833 "2015-04-15T19:04:39Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > **AtomicDog**. I never intended to give the impression I was speaking for you. If I had a time machine I would go back and add a smiley to show it was (intended as) a harmless and light hearted comment. But I am sorry you interpreted it as misattributing comments as yours. > > I was not being disingenuous either but this is a public bulletin board, this is the pit and you can make such accusations about me as you please. > > TCMF-2F “I think that AtomicDog will agree with me there” is not speaking for me? I don’t think that my interpretation of your comment is incorrect. When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1834 "2015-04-15T19:14:32Z")
No! The first thing to do is claim you know you are in a hole, you meant to get in the hole, and the hole is the safest place around at the moment. Then you lob a verbal grenade. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1835 "2015-04-15T20:42:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > it’s amazing how many people that would otherwise be against unregulated medicine on whatever grounds are in favour of medicinal pot. > > Of course recreational pot should be legal, which would solve a lot of the problems, but calling an uncontrolled dose of an untested substance “medicine” is absurd, and should be illegal. The harm isn’t done by people smoking it and feeling better, it’s done by those who call it medicine, who are no better than homeopaths or other woo-based “therapists”. > > Research what causes the benefits and provide _that_ as a medicine, and allow those who wish to continue smoking a substance that’s known to cause cancer and mental illness in private if they choose, but don’t call it medicine. What gives you the idea that it’s untested? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1836 "2015-04-15T21:24:39Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > What gives you the idea that it’s untested? All the cannabis at the legal dispenseries is tested for purity, strength, adulteration and so forth, like medicines have to be? I doubt that. I’m not aware of _any_ regulation of them. That’s the sort of testing I’m referring to. I’m not doubting the effectiveness of cannabis overall, I’m saying that the safety and effectiveness would be _massively_ increased by researching and producing medicines derived from it, rather than the rather random dosage and purity obtained by smoking it. But advising that someone use cannabis at this point for medical purposes is akin to suggesting changes in diet or exercise, not prescribing a medicine. Something that is fine, and should be legal. For what it’s worth, I’m glad your father found relief, and hopefully the more people that do, the closer we’ll get to actual medicines derived from it, instead of the research being effectively prohibited. ETA Not your father, the other Rick’s father. Should pay more attention… ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1837 "2015-04-15T22:29:11Z")
The big reason no one is too concerned about the amount of THC in a particular sample of marijuana is that there is no realistic danger from an overdose of the stuff. Didn’t get enough THC? Take a little more. Got a bit too much? Dude, maintain. It’s not like acetaminophen where if you get too much you shred your liver. I regularly take legal drugs in the form of random plant parts of untested strength and purity. I have no idea when I drink my morning cup of coffee if I’m going to get a really strong hit of my drug, or some weak-ass ditch weed. Should I ditch the coffee and stick to taking caffeine pills of tested and regulated purity? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1838 "2015-04-15T23:19:42Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > All the cannabis at the legal dispenseries is tested for purity, strength, adulteration and so forth, like medicines have to be? No. But I can assure you it is really, really, really good. Seriously. ETA: Really. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1839 "2015-04-16T00:27:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m not doubting the effectiveness of cannabis overall, I’m saying that the safety and effectiveness would be _massively_ increased by researching and producing medicines derived from it, rather than the rather random dosage and purity obtained by smoking it. I don’t smoke pot. I also don’t have a problem with the use of medical marijuana for “Stress reduction,” quotes intentional. But medical marijuana advocates have 2 responses. First, pot is cheaper than pharmaceutical THC. That’s might be a small advantage in cultures with developed health systems like Canada and Europe, but it’s a real thing in the US. Secondly, it’s easier to vary dosages with pot brownies than it is with pills, in practice. Sure you don’t know the exact concentration in the brownie. But dosage varying is easier. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1840 "2015-04-16T12:50:18Z")
It looks like the Tulsa police department tried to [falsify records](http://gawker.com/tulsa-authorities-reportedly-falsified-reserve-deputys-1698133492), giving Bates training he never received. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=91) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=93)