# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 99
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1961 "2015-04-24T19:39:50Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > I don’t see a problem with this. The entire point of posting bail is that you can lead an ordinary life between arrest and trial. Bates is a pretty low flight risk and he’ll either forfeit $25K or have bounty hunters chase after him if he flees. You could be a murderer or rapist and you still get bail just like everybody else. I agree. It would be nice if the judge weren’t so chummy with the defendant, but I expect a different judge would have OKd the travel too. Bates is not a flight risk. He will appear for trial, especially since he is more than likely to be acquitted. Question for our legal folks: IYO, what is the likelihood for a conviction on manslaughter charges? To sustain manslaughter, don’t they (the People) have to show intent? I mean, for it t be manslaughter, he had to INTEND to shoot the victim. Seems like the ‘I got confused and thought I pulled the taser’ will play just as well. Particularly in light of the fact that he is an elderly, poorly-trained wannabee. I’m not saying he didn’t intend to shoot the victim, I’m just saying it seems difficult to prove when a more plausible explanation is available. I expect he will be acquitted, then the department will sued into oblivion. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1962 "2015-04-24T19:59:55Z")
[Tulsa County Sheriff’s Department did their own investigation in _2009_ that determined that Robert Bates’s training and special treatment were inappropriate.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/24/us/tulsa-shooting-robert-bates-2009-inquiry/) ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1963 "2015-04-24T20:01:26Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > I don’t see a problem with this. The entire point of posting bail is that you can lead an ordinary life between arrest and trial. Bates is a pretty low flight risk and he’ll either forfeit $25K or have bounty hunters chase after him if he flees. You could be a murderer or rapist and you still get bail just like everybody else. While I have no doubt that Bates will appear at trial, I doubt that the thought of losing a $25k bail bond would deter him. Murder bails that make the news tend to be in the 100k or million range, and those are for people with no reasonable chance of actually coming up with that kind of money. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1964 "2015-04-24T21:34:11Z")
I miss the old days when there was not a riot when the cops shot somebody. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1965 "2015-04-24T21:52:13Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > While I have no doubt that Bates will appear at trial, I doubt that the thought of losing a $25k bail bond would deter him. Murder bails that make the news tend to be in the 100k or million range, and those are for people with no reasonable chance of actually coming up with that kind of money. Another question for our Legal guys and gals: If someone skips bail, does the government freeze their assets? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1966 "2015-04-24T22:02:07Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I miss the old days when there was not a riot when the cops shot somebody. I miss the old days when no one had cameras so the police had prettymuch free reign to do whatever they wanted to and could just back each other up with their tailored accounts of what went down. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1967 "2015-04-24T22:14:12Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I agree. It would be nice if the judge weren’t so chummy with the defendant, but I expect a different judge would have OKd the travel too… Not likely to make a difference with the redneck jury he’ll probably get, but how do you think it _looks_ from the POV of the victim’s family and friends? Or even the casual observer… “Yeah sure, I killed some black guy by mistake. But hell’s bells if that’s going to ruin my vacation in The Bahamas.” Remorseful, he is not. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1968 "2015-04-24T22:52:28Z")
[The story of Ramsey Orta who took the Eric Garner video](http://www.vice.com/read/nine-months-after-he-filmed-eric-garners-killing-the-cops-are-trying-to-put-ramsey-orta-behind-bars) His story that the cops are out to get him has at least some credibility. In former days I would have dismissed that thought pretty much out of hand. > [@](#): > > When I spoke to him, he was at the tail end of a two-month stint on Rikers Island, locked up on $100,000 bail and awaiting trial for drug charges. Orta is 23 years old and slight, with sharp cheekbones that his time in Rikers had made almost disturbingly prominent. Terrified of being poisoned, he’d been living off of pre-packaged commissary food since he entered jail. The fear is better founded than you might think—19 prisoners in Orta’s unit are suing the city over pellets of rat poison they allege guards planted in their meatloaf. > [@](#): > > Orta publicly mourned his friend’s death, throwing memorials and speaking at vigils. He also testified at the grand jury for Pantaleo. At the same time, according to Orta, the police began to follow him. They drove by his mom’s house, where he lived, late at night, shining floodlights into the windows. Orta told me cops stopped by the place where his then girlfriend, Chrissie Ortiz, worked, demanding a copy of the video. (They later arrested Ortiz, allegedly for fighting.) Orta told me his friends were searched after leaving his home. Orta’s aunt, Lisa Mercado, who has become his chief supporter and a spokesperson of sorts, told me that she was followed by police whenever she visited Staten Island from her home in New Jersey. > > Orta wasn’t the only witness to suffer this sort of attention. Taisha Allen filmed officers refusing Garner medical attention as he lay dying. In March 2015, police arrested Allen for being in a park after closing time. Allen alleges they beat her, leaving her covered in bruises and with an injured arm; she told Pix11 that cops recognized her and said, “You’re that little girl from the Eric Garner case.” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1969 "2015-04-24T23:00:05Z")
[Town where US marshal smashed citizen’s camera rakes in millions from federal forfeiture rules](http://reason.com/blog/2015/04/23/town-where-us-marshal-smashed-citizens-c#.kdgebu:D2dQ) ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1970 "2015-04-24T23:39:39Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I miss the old days when there was not a riot when the cops shot somebody. Yeah, the blacks have really gotten uppity about being murdered by the state lately. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1971 "2015-04-25T05:19:11Z")
> [@OwnRules](#): > > Not likely to make a difference with the redneck jury he’ll probably get, but how do you think it _looks_ from the POV of the victim’s family and friends? Or even the casual observer… > > “Yeah sure, I killed some black guy by mistake. But hell’s bells if that’s going to ruin my vacation in The Bahamas.” > > Remorseful, he is not. Yeah, I’m not seeing much remorse in his apology: > **[‘It can happen to anyone’: Robert Bates apologizes to family of Eric Harris,...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/04/17/it-can-happen-to-anyone-robert-bates-apologizes-to-family-of-eric-harris-denies-training-records-were-falsified/)** > > A Tulsa reserve deputy accused of manslaughter for fatally shooting an unarmed suspect apologized to the dead man’s family, saying he “had no desire to ever take anyone’s life.… > [@](#): > > First and foremost,” Bates, surrounded by is wife, two daughters and attorney, said on NBC’s “Today” show on Friday, “let me apologize to the family of Eric Harris. This is the second worst thing to ever happen to me - or first. > > "I’ve had cancer a number of years ago, I didn’t think I was going to get there. Luckily, I was able to go to a hospital where I had hours of surgery. I rate this as number one on my list of things in my life that I regret.” > > … > > Bates added: “I never considered the repercussions of what I had just done. It was shock, I can tell you it stayed with me for a number of days. I’m not at all sure it’s not still with me today – lack of sleep, inability to concentrate – all of those plus more. I still can’t believe it happened.” Gosh, we should feel so sorry about this horrible thing that happened to him. He might even still be feeling bad about this horrible thing that happened to him. But maybe his vacation will help him feel better about this horrible thing that happened to him. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1972 "2015-04-25T08:38:37Z")
You seriously think that accidentally killing someone would _not_ be a horrible experience? ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1973 "2015-04-25T12:02:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You seriously think that accidentally killing someone would _not_ be a horrible experience? The shooter of Rekia Boyd doesn’t seem too upset about it. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1974 "2015-04-25T13:34:00Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Gosh, we should feel so sorry about this horrible thing that happened to him. He might even still be feeling bad about this horrible thing that happened to him. But maybe his vacation will help him feel better about this horrible thing that happened to him. [Quote=Sterling Brown] Let us pity Ty Kendricks. He has been through enough, Standing there, his big gun smoking, Rabbit-scared, alone, Having to hear the wenches wail And the dying Negro moan. [/quote] [http://www.usprisonculture.com/blog/2013/08/21/poem-of-the-day-southern-cop-by-sterling-brown/](http://www.usprisonculture.com/blog/2013/08/21/poem-of-the-day-southern-cop-by-sterling-brown/) ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1975 "2015-04-25T15:17:51Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You seriously think that accidentally killing someone would _not_ be a horrible experience? I think that a lot of these cops don’t really see blacks as people. For Bates, he probably feels as bad as if he hit a dog with his car, it’s sad, but no reason to ruin everyone’s vacation. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1976 "2015-04-25T15:52:20Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You seriously think that accidentally killing someone would _not_ be a horrible experience? I like to think that if i really, truly killed someone accidentally, due to a complete and total fuckup on my own part, i would find it within me to convey some of my own shame and horror and regret about the matter in my public statements about the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1977 "2015-04-25T16:01:04Z")
Nothing wrong with people protesting actions of cops. But sometimes it goes way, way beyond protests. For example the Rodney King LA riots killed 53 people and injured 2000+. I don’t know how many of those killed were cops or people who worked in government but I don’t think many were. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1978 "2015-04-25T16:52:54Z")
[SF Police are being sued for shooting a man in the back as he ran away](http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Lawsuit-says-S-F-police-killed-Mission-man-as-he-6222579.php). The police claim they shot in self defense as the man was charging at them with a knife which contradicts all available evidence. It seems to me the punishment for cops found lying in testimony should be especially severe. A huge foundational part of our system of laws is on being able to trust the testimony of cops. All of the recent evidence coming out of cops systematically lying and tampering with crime scenes severely erodes that trust. Good cops are caught in the crossfire when we become automatically suspicious of all cop testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1979 "2015-04-25T16:57:44Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Nothing wrong with people protesting actions of cops. But sometimes it goes way, way beyond protests. > > For example the Rodney King LA riots killed 53 people and injured 2000+. I don’t know how many of those killed were cops or people who worked in government but I don’t think many were. If anything, the events of the past year or so make it clear exactly why things like the Rodney King riots happen. They are no Sui genetics events that you can simply tut-tut and use to blame the black community. They happen because our society is squeezing black people so hard that there occasionally will be an explosion. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1980 "2015-04-25T21:32:08Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I miss the old days when there was not a riot when the cops shot somebody. > [@eschereal](#): > > I miss the old days when no one had cameras so the police had prettymuch free reign to do whatever they wanted to and could just back each other up with their tailored accounts of what went down. Sorry, but there haven’t been any riots in Tulsa, have there? Or is my Google-fu acting up? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=98) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=100)