A little international note, just so you Merkins feel brotherly love from across the pond : you may or may not remember this, but back in 2005 we had big riots all around Paris, in the “ghettos”.
These riots had been triggered by the death of two kids (15 and 17 respectively) who got zapped to death in an electrical relay in which they had broken into while running away from a pair of cops - a third kid only got badly burned. The kids were not criminals or anything - they just didn’t want to get harassed by the police during the process of the stop-and-frisk, which happens disturbingly often.
The cops in question knew the kids were likely in there, and in danger : a radio recording has one cop musing “if they got inside the EDF relay, they’re not long for this world”, but stopped pursuit and didn’t call any sort of rescue or investigation. They just left.
This week, because justice delayed is something something, the verdict is finally in on those cops. They walk, despite the French laws against “non-assistance to person or persons in danger” (basically a law mandating a duty to rescue or help people you know are in immediate peril). The kids’ families get bubkis for their trouble.
Naturally, there are demonstrations in front of the tribunal. So far, so peaceful, but it’s pretty tense out there for some reason.
Except he wasn’t forced to the ground, his son wasn’t forced to the ground, he didn’t have multiple cops holding weapons pointed at him for several very long minutes, etc. Face it, he was treated much better than the black guy was treated, even tho his rights were violated and he was forced to endure an uncomfortable conversation with many law enforcement officers who don’t seem to care much about the laws they are sworn to uphold.
Right he wasn’t forced to the ground. He was forced faced down on the hood of the car. And on the rural road there was only one cop so there couldn’t be multiple guns pointed. But yeah racism.
BTW he was found guilty because the cop did in fact know the law and Grisham didn’t know it nearly as good as he thought he did. The officer was within his rights under the current Texas law to demand someone who open carried to secure his weapon during an investigation. It cost him $2,000 in fines although that may still be in appeal right now.
Oh, you’d like to argue this point? You’d like to argue that the white guy in Texas was not treated any better than the black guy in Nevada? That’s your perspective?
Your easy dismissal of the obvious differences in demeanor and in the actions of the police in the two different situations seems to go hand-in-hand with your easy dismissal of any racially motivated reasons for the differences.
Two isolated anecdotes from two completely different jurisdictions does not equal “therefore RACISM”.
Now, if someone were to arrange for a white person and a black person, dressed and groomed similarly, to open-carry in the exact same way, and walk around in the same city, in the same time of day, until a police encounter occurred, then you might have something.
Not really. Something like institutional racism cannot be meaningfully examined in an incidental and anecdotal fashion. A handful of total racist cops could taint an entire force, whether or not racism was the norm in that force. Opposite also true.
Then there should be many other examples: I invite you and others to find them. Overall though, I understand that a lot of white guys have open carried military rifles, pissing off the local cops but generally getting off without arrest or being forced to the ground. Black open carry is rarer for good reason IMO.
I don’t dismiss your incident entirely: let’s compare it to the Nevada case.
We have a hunting rifle being carried in a rural area vs. a military rifle in an urban area, so the Nevada case justifies a greater police response on grounds of suspicious behavior. (Never mind the cases where white guys were holding military rifles in urban areas: I’m just comparing the two cases).
We have a black guy forced to the ground at gunpoint vs. a white guy forced against a car. I say those are in the same ballpark at least.
But here’s the thing. The initial encounter of the Texas cop with the rural white rifle holder was cordial. There were no guns drawn and nobody was forced to do anything. It was only after a quick movement was made, when the officer pulled out his weapon and got physical. I’ll note that the suspect continued to provide lip after that point, suggesting to me that we had an attitude problem on our hands. Contrast with the Nevada case where the officer gets out of his vehicle and immediately points a gun at the black guy, yelling at him to go on the ground. That’s a very different encounter.
So no, I don’t think we’ve topped the Sun Valley Nevada case. And we have a large sample of white guys with rifles and attitudes to work with. There should be multiple examples of a more intensive police response. We actually don’t need a perfectly controlled experiment.
Ah, but the maybe the Sun Valley response was an isolated incident. I guess there’s that. Sample size of one and everything. I’d find this argument more persuasive if I didn’t believe that replicating this experiment would be quite frankly rather reckless. Maybe what we need is news investigation with hidden cameras, bullet proof vests, stunt doubles, holographic projection, etc. Also lots of insurance.
Oh yeah. Sun Valley Nevada isn’t lily white. Wiki: “The racial makeup … was 79.78% White, 2.20% African American, 1.93% Native American, 2.21% Asian, 0.62% Pacific Islander, 9.51% from other races, and 3.74% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 21.13% of the population.”
Interestingly the broader MSA (Reno metropolitan statistical area, covering a number of cities) is similar: “77.0% White, 2.3% African American, 1.7% Native American, 5.1% Asian, 0.6% Pacific Islander, 9.4% some other race, and 3.8% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 22.1% of the population.”
You asked for one example I gave you one. I really don’t want to watch any more videos from the open carry douche bags. You are welcome to do so. The video titles are hyperbolic enough for me.
Oh sure. That’s why I invited others as well. Heck, I only scanned a few myself. (Give me a point for locating the Mack Worley vid.)
I don’t apologize for subjecting your vid to scrutiny though. That’s what we do here. That’s the point. So far I’d say that the treatment of the African American in Nevada is qualitatively different from the the others. I’m not surprised that the Texas guy got pushed against his car when he “Instinctively” reached for his weapon according to the You-tube description itself. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Texas cop’s behavior was not in accordance with the law either, though apparently it was. Regardless, we still have a fairly bright line between 2 arrest vids of white open carry (the worst we could find based on a cursory glance of descriptions) vs. 1 black open carry vid.
Yes watching those guys make my teeth itch. The reason why I knew about this incident was because C.J. Grisham had some measure of fame as a military blogger at the time. I read some of his stuff. Now he seems to devote most of his time to getting open carry legalized in Texas for all kinds of guns.
As another anecdote there are the marches by the Huey Newton Gun Club in Dallas that appear to have the full cooperation with the local police department. And that guy who was carrying an AR-15 outside of an Obama visit in Arizona with no police interference. I don’t know if there is enough data to reach a meaningful conclusion especially sine most of the information out there is open carry propaganda.
I am shocked at this stuff and it seems to be well past time for the public to turn the antiseptic spotlight on the police and their activities. Now that I have started to pay attention to this stuff, it seems to be everywhere, for instance it seems that the Dade County Jails were in the habit of torturing the prisoners in their care, in some case to death. Now I am sure that Smapti will view this as OK as these are just dirty criminals and they deserve whatever happens to them if they don’t play frog whenever somebody with a badge says hop, but I am appalled that this stuff is being done in my name with my taxpayer dollars.
And then there was the case of the veteran / soldier with no criminal record that voluntarily showed up at an El Paso Jail to serve a 48 incarceration for a DWI. He never left. This happened back in 2012 but has resurfaced in the news feed because the family has released video of the events surrounding his death. I am sure that Smapti will dismiss this as another understandable occurrence; shit happens when you are a citizen of the United States. You need to watch yourself, right Smapti?
And then there has been all the stories about civil asset forfeiture and the activities of the DEA on Amtrak trains. I just don’t get how this has not been successfully challenged in court as a violation of illegal seizure clause and violation on the due process clause. Take a look at this case: Joseph Rivers has his life savings taken by the DEA. Of course Smapti knows in his heart of hearts that this OK because this guy surely did something wrong, right? The guy was a criminal duly convicted by a jury of his peers as laid out in the Constitution and had the opportunity to confront his accusers and needs to be punished. Right, Smapti?
Whatever. I will let the reader guess on the race of the criminals in the three cases above.
Frankly, I’d expect a little more professionalism on the part of those dealing with the mentally ill.
Per your own cite, the deceased had sickle cell anemia, which he failed to disclose to the jail, and the symptoms he experienced before his death are consistent with a sickle cell crisis that they couldn’t treat because he chose to not tell them about it. The insinuation that the jail is responsible for his death appears to be a meritless conspiracy theory on the part of the family.
Law-abiding citizens don’t carry $16,000 in cash on their person. I’d be very surprised if the money was acquired through legal channels.
It’s not illegal. What it is is highly suspicious. Why not put it in a bank account? Because you’ve acquired the money illegally and you don’t want the government to know about it. Why not fly when flying is cheaper and faster? Because then your bags would be searched.