It’s got nothing to do with the fact that he was a cop, and everything to do with the fact that it’s legal to shoot and kill people in self defence.
It’s got everything to do with the fact that if he wasn’t a cop it wouldn’t have been ruled self-defense. Your sentence would be much more accurate if you had left out the word “in” and substituted the words “if you’re a cop and call it”.
Yes, because only cops have even successfully claimed self defence to show their innocence…
Anyone, not just cops, should be able to “call it” self defence and walk free, unless it can be proven that it wasn’t.
Really, what could possibly go wrong?
If by “cops” you mean “civilians with no police authority whatsoever in the place where this occurred”.
What was your point exactly?
The words of the FBI director are kind of relevant to this thread,
The citizens of [Cleveland] and other cities have the right to protest… but they don’t have a right to destroy the city and businesses… It’s outsiders who tend to stir the pot. If we have that intel we pass it directly on to the PD, we have worked with Ferguson. We’ve worked with Baltimore and we will work with the Cleveland PD on that very thing. That 's what we bring to the game.
Right, so when the police violate innocent citizens’ civil rights, the FBI will be there to make up for it, by violating citizens’ civil rights.
In general, Giuliano believes police are more vulnerable nowadays than even in the days when he was … part of a Violent Crimes unit and SWAT. “I do worry about that. And we worry about people in military uniforms that they could be targeted. That is a very real concern that we have.”
The big blue wall.
Over at Slate: The Myth of the Hero Cop: Police officers earn more than you think for a job that’s less dangerous than you imagine, by David Feige.
I name the author, since Slate is notorious for counter-intuitive nonsense. In this case, he makes a decent case about cop safety, while presenting some misleading salary statistics about New York City cops alone.
This was a decent paragraph though: [INDENT][INDENT]The hero cop narrative is also belied by the facts. According to the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, police work does not crack the top-10 list of most dangerous jobs. Loggers have a fatality rate 11 times higher than cops, and sanitation workers die in the line of duty at twice the rate that police do. Yes, police officers are sometimes shot and killed, but this is a fairly rare phenomenon. Indeed, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, of the 100 officers killed in the United States in the line of duty in 2013, far more crashed their cars or were hit by cars than were shot or stabbed. In fact, if you compare the murder rate among police officers with the murder rate in several American cities, you find that it is far safer to be a NYPD officer than an average black man in Baltimore or St. Louis. [/INDENT][/INDENT] Links in the link.
Bloomberg:
Jobs that are more dangerous and pay less than the median US cop:
Fishermen, loggers, Misc extraction workers, iron and steel workers, roofers, garbage collectors, Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers, misc. agricultural workers, construction laborers, tax drivers and chauffers. The median pay for a police officer is $56,130.
Roughly of equal danger are managers of construction trades, though they get paid less. Roughly of equal danger and somewhat higher pay ($60,380) are general maintenance and repair trades.
http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dangerous-jobs/
In 2013, 31 police officers were killed in firearms related injuries, the lowest since 1887. http://www.nleomf.org/assets/pdfs/reports/2013-EOY-Fatality-Report.pdf
BigBuckyApple: Nice link: it suggests what sort of behavior constitutes best practices.
This bears repeating. After the Swedish cops broke up a fight on the subway, they asked the assailants, “How do you feel?”, “Are you injured?”, and said, “It’s going to be ok.”
Now that’s deescalation. People like talking about themselves, and this sort of conversation draws attention away from the guy they were fighting. I like the way they engaged with the guy who was freaking out as well. Interesting application of authority.
Oh come on now!
You know exactly what the point is.
It’s a demonstration of how skillfully officers from another country handled a dangerous situation, while on vacation, to the benefit of people they are not even sworn to serve and protect.
And, presumably, it is a reflection of a higher standard of training.
Even if you choose to disagree, don’t pretend you don’t understand what’s being said.
We’re all adults here. (Probably.)
That “civilians with no police authority whatsoever” are apparently better cops than actual U.S cops.
Does NY have the figure of “citizen arrest”? I remember a case where a Guardia Civil couple who were there on their way to some training did something similar, and the explanation given on the news was that in the US it would be a “citizens’ arrest” (in Spain the verbs used are different for the police and for citizens awaiting the cops, but the concept appears to be similar).
If a regular New Yorker can detain someone while the cops arrive, does that apply only to residents of NYC, do you need to be registered to vote… what would someone need, if being there and knowing what to do isn’t enough?
In their own jurisdictions, those fellows (both the Swedes and the Civiles) would have ID’d the people involved, taken statements, perhaps taken someone to the station. In a jurisdiction not their own, they did what a knowledgeable civilian in their own jurisdictions (including cops from other places) would be expected to do. They defused the situation, made sure nobody was hurt, warned appropriate authorities, and handed things over to those authorities when they showed up. What law did they break?
I do think the narrative of cops as heroes is a bad thing. Specially as it’s taught from an early age. I think it tends to create people like Snapti who don’t just respect authority, but are so incredibly, irrationally subservient to it, that they’re willing to let them stomp all over any one, including themselves!
And I’m actually struggling with this when it comes to my young son. What do I teach him? That Cops are always right? That they are heroes and should not be questioned? That they never lie and should always be trusted?
None of that is true.
But at the same time they are important parts of our social structure, and need to be treated with respect, and you need to understand the complexities of encounters with them.
If everything else about the nationality and training of these persons was the same except that they were wearing NYPD uniforms, do you think the people involved in the fight would have responded the same way to their interaction?
In fact, if four uniformed officers had been riding the train, do you think there would have been a fight?
Teach them the truth - that the cops are public servants whose job is to enforce the laws the people have created, and as long as you obey the law and act respectfully to them they won’t have any reason to do anything to you.
That’s something some cops don’t themselves believe, Smapti, that’s the problem. And if the “some” is “a few” and their coworkers and superiors are working on making it even smaller, than it’s a little problem; but when “some” is “a large amount” and their own watchmen seem to be OK with it, it’s a big problem and getting bigger.
Unless you’re black of course.
When my kids were toddlers I taught them (and I guess believed) “the police are your friends”. A few years later I taught them a more realistic view about law enforcement centering on “ask for a parent or lawyer”.
The ACLU provides a bunch of teaching material about this.
Especially if you’re black. If more black youths were taught to trust and respect the police rather than being taught that the police are out to get you because RACISM, most of these “controversial encounters” would never happen in the first place.
I’m not sure in which way exactly Tamir Rice disrespected the police or disobeyed the law. I’m sure you’ll explain.