What threatening behavior did the suspect exhibit at this point in time?
OK, dully noted. Stand aside, then reach inside, grab a gun, bring it to bear and fire before the cop… who already has a gun on you!..can shoot. What time does it take to pull a trigger, tenth of a second? Less? And you’re gotta beat that, Quick Draw?
Balderdash, sir! Tommyrot!
True, but if you had complied to begin with, things wouldn’t have gotten that far. It’s been iiandyiiii’s contention that terror of the police or confusion as to what to do is why black guys sometimes don’t comply, and he uses the yelling of multiple instructions scenario as an example of how it can be confusing and ‘terrifying’ to comply even if one wanted to. My point is that the subject must already have refused to comply at some point or things wouldn’t have gotten to that point to begin with.
Cite this please. Third time I’ve asked.
Correction, he is tased first then shot by Shelby, which is why Shelby was charged with manslaughter.
Well, apparently a few things still need to be cleared up.
Maybe a single officer gave conflicting orders (freeze! get on the ground!); maybe the guy freezes up for a moment and doesn’t comply; maybe it takes him a few seconds to figure out what’s being ordered; etc. There are a million possibilities on why someone, especially someone who might be terrified, doesn’t comply immediately and perfectly. When cops start an interaction like they’re a bully who must be obeyed or else, this seems like it will be a lot more likely, increasing the danger to everyone.
And it never excuses brutality. Even if they were willfully disobeying – six cops beating a guy while he’s on the ground is never necessary. And from the videos in both Tulsa and Charlotte, deadly force did not appear to be warranted.
It takes a certain amount of time for human reactions to take place. A good example of this was illustrated in Steven Seagal’s cop show a few years ago. During training he stood in front of a cop who had a pistol pointed at him and he instructed the cop to fire (no ammo obviously) when Seagal moved. Seagal was able to pivot away and to the side out of the line of fire by the time the guy pulled the trigger, and then to grab the cop’s arm and pry the gun out of his hand, disarming him in the blink of an eye and before the cop being trained (i.e., the shooter) could react further.
In the case of Philando Castille there would have been enough time to fire before a weapon could have been brought to bear. In Crutcher’s case there probably wouldn’t have been enough time because he’d likely have had the gun out, pointed and be firing by the time the cops could react.
Nice bit of writing. It would make for a great episode of a television series…but it has little to do with reality.
Funny you should mention that, we just had a guy here in Mpls shot for a broken tail light. “Funny” isn’t actually the word.
Not if you’re white. What our brown Americans are telling us is that the rules are different when you’re brown. Do you deny that? Do you even doubt that?
Just to clarify something – drug recognition experts are not experts in looking at somebody on the street and deciding what they’re on. That’s sorcery, not science. Plenty of cops (plenty of people in general) would draw a conclusion like that, but that’s completely different from this officer’s expertise. I suppose it’s arguable that the officer might have had some kind of special insight into whether the person was generally impaired at all, but there’s nothing more to it than that under those circumstances. You don’t have any additional authority for an off-the-cuff diagnosis from visual observation because you’re a drug recognition expert.
Drug recognition experts are people who are trained in conducting clinical examinations in a controlled environment to come to conclusions about what kind of impairment a person is exhibiting in response to a series of tests, which include stuff like checking muscle tone and seeing if the person’s eyes are capable of tracking motion. It takes a long time and involves a series of prescribed observations.
You’re confusing fantasy and reality again.
And so because of terror and confusion over whether he should freeze or get on the ground, he decides to physically resist in some way? Starts fighting with the cops or resisting their efforts to handcuff him, or refuses to get out of the car or drop the gun or whatever? Because these are the kinds of noncompliance that are getting people shot and not confusion over whether to freeze or get on the ground.
Why do people keep bringing this up? I’ve already said this kind of thing is bad and shouldn’t happen. I’ve said it two or three times now.
Why do I suspect that he was shot for a broken tail light in the same sense that Crutcher was shot for being on PCP?
Indeed, they were both black. Good point.
He might pull back or jerk his hands. He might stumble. He might just not move. All those things might be interpreted by cops as “resisting”.
Because you keep saying things like “My point is that the subject must already have refused to comply at some point or things wouldn’t have gotten to that point to begin with.” That’s an excuse for brutality, whether you mean it as such for not. It doesn’t matter if Rodney King didn’t obey the cops at first – that’s a miniscule mistake compared to the brutality he experienced. His initial disobedience is nothing compared to being brutalized, and shouldn’t matter a single iota in judging the appropriateness of the actions of the cops.
The point is that none of the people in the news lately for being shot would have been killed had they merely complied with the police’s lawful orders.
(The tragic and unusual case of Philando Castille excepted.)
Instead of making excuses for all this crap, the black community would be much better served by placing an emphasis on compliance rather than making the police the bad guys when law-breakers and resisters get shot.
I’m not the right color to give the proper response to this.
Lots of police are already bad guys. They have always been bad guys who happen to have badges. Do I need to link to the Houston shooting again?
This has always been happening. It’s just a thing now because people have phones that can capture video.
You’re going to have to except a lot of other cases. How about Charles Kinsey?
Next time I’m incoherent on the floor from hypoglycemia, I’ll try to remember that.
Dumbass.
Well, it seems you’ve already made up your mind about what the facts are. By your reasoning no one but the first person on the scene could make an independent judgment because everyone else is just following the first person’s lead.
One. ONE cop shot him. That cops is currently being charged with first degree manslaughter.
Police shoot about 1000 people every year. How many of those do you think follow this pattern?