I can’t be bothered to go back through the thread and point out the people that need to eat shit right now. Suffice it to say that noone should be surprised by this when several officers noted that the victim seemed “on something” or “high” or “intoxicated”. That’s not enough of an excuse to justify shooting but it really ought to make anyone who asks “what makes him a suspect, huh? because he’s black, right?” STFU. It really ought to make you think that maybe this guy wasn’t obeying police orders. It really ought to make you wonder if using a taser might actually have been justified. But I’m sure someone will come along and pick some nit that makes even these things crimes against humanity.
Then why didn’t they taser him sooner? They could have and should have done that.
[quote]
Again, it’s truly a shame that this man died. But he was high on PCP, refusing to follow police orders, and shot while inadvertently undertaking an action that the police are trained to regard as a mortal threat, and after having watched the police training videos I posted upthread I’d have to concur with that assessment.
If the police are training their officers to shoot in that situation, then they are doing it wrong and deserve to get sued for poor training.
Officer Shelby was surrounded by half a dozen officers all with guns and tasers out. The victim didn’t even open the door yet and he had just been tasered. Now it all happened very fast so the tasering might not have registered but I wouldn’t be surprised if the victim got tasered and he jerked and that startled Shelby into firing the bullet.
But we’re now clear that it does make you a suspect and justifies pulling your weapon, right? And if you start to become a threat, it justifies tasering, right?
And I think we already established that PCP is in fact an anesthetic that immunizes you to pain.
You could have made the same points, and left the word minority out, and been closer to the truth, and less of a racist.
If you are saying that those who have been marginalized to the point of having few legal alternatives to poverty sometimes take up illegal alternatives to poverty, that would be a good point.
If you are saying that minorities may be more likely to resist arrest than whites, because they know that minorities get much stiffer sentences for the same crime, that may even have some merit to it.
Oh, if you think that crime does not occur in white suburbia, you are very mistaken. (And racist). It’s just that it goes without arrests, because the police are concentrating on the poor neighborhoods. (where they don’t have lawyers on retainer.)
Who are the people that “believe certain people join the police force just so they can legally kill people.”? Personally I think that most of them join the force so that they can legally speed.
There are very few cops who wake up in the morning looking to kill people, not even a statistic, if I had to guess, I’d say that there are 3.
Once again, this thread is about controversial encounters, not about police shootings. Few officers kill anyone in their career, that is correct, but many of them interact with the public a few more times than that.
Upthread there was the story of the cop shoving a screwdriver into another human being’s ass. That’s not killing, but it causes just as much or more animosity towards the police, and, as it is not an actual death, it is not listed in your stats.
I know that you are for police using torture on the public, but do you really think that that is something that is going to make the community more likely, or less likely to have respect for the law and those who are tasked to enforce it?
When you have cops stomping on peoples’ heads, beating them for sitting on their mother’s porch, macing them while they are helpless, or sodomizing them with screwdrivers, why the fuck should anyone have the slightest bit of respect for them? Sure, they can kill you, but if your only respect comes from the barrel of a gun, then you have failed, and it’s just a police state.
But seriously, tell me, if you had had any of these police brutalities happen to you, or to a family member, or to a friend, or anyone you actually know, would you feel the same way, or do you feel that it would be acceptable for the police to terrorize your neighborhood?
Damuri Ajashi:
Unless jamming a screwdriver in someone’s ass is in the department handbook, then it would in fact be a violation to violate someone like that. What part of this are you not getting? Just like upthread when you defended the officer for macing the helpless girl, you are either missing something in the story, or you are missing any form of humanity itself.
Yes, teachers are sometimes fired based on allegations alone. But that doesn’t matter, because in this case, it’s not an allegation, it is a finding of fact from a court.
So? It still has the weight of law behind it. A court did in fact find that these officers violated the plaintiff’s civil rights by shoving a screwdriver in his ass.
What? How much evidence do yo need? There was enough evidence for a jury to decide that they had performed these actions. There was enough evidence for a jury to punish the department for these officer’s actions to the tune of $4 million.
You keep saying “mere accusation”, as if this did not go to trial, and as if there was not a jury who found that the preponderance of the evidence does in fact indicate that these officers did do the actions they are accused of.
What more evidence do *you *need?
Now, in the 49’s thread, I was assured by Loach that police are often times fired for violating department policies, even if they are not convicted. Now, are you saying that he was wrong, I misunderstood, or could you accept that you are incorrect on this matter?
I ask you one more time, in that a court of law did in fact find that these officers jammed a screwdriver into the rectum of another human being, while acting in their official capacity as enforcers of law and justice, do you really think that these guys should still be given that authority over other people?
How do you know this rectum wasn’t armed, or on drugs! Shouldn’t this thread, alone, have made it clear how much damage a deranged asshole can accomplish!
You probably should; you might find it edifying. I imagine that the number of people who claimed authoritatively that he wasn’t on PCP is pretty close to zero. The argument that people were making is that the police at the scene had no way of distinguishing his behavior from the behavior of someone having a medical issue. Starving Artist can’t understand this distinction because he’s stupid. Let’s hope Starving Artistism isn’t contagious.
Reading the whole thread is the only way to understand the gradual descent into delusional insanity **Starving Artist **demonstrated. No single post from that thread can capture it.
Oh, yes he can. And he can also spot yet another of your dishonest attempts at verbal sleight-of-hand. Spotted it instantly as a matter of fact. No one has said people were claiming authoritatively that Crutcher wasn’t on PCP. They were questioning the assessment of the police, and Officer Shelby in particular, that he was.
And no posts in that thread can capture the statements you’ve claimed I made.
Because you’re lying. You are a lying liar who lies.
And a none too bright nitwit who thinks you’re getting aways with something by trying to cite entire threads or by imploring people to ask me what I “really meant” instead of what you claim I said, not realizing all along that such a statement in itself is a tacit admission of your own mendacity (with a tip of the hat to the equally deflated mhendo for the groovy eight cylinder word ).
I’m sure it’s lost on you the amount of pleasure I’ve taken from watching you twist in the wind like this, hung by your own rope. I smile just a little bit more each time you’re called upon and fail to provide any evidence whatsoever to cite your claims, and yet more each time you try to weasel out of it. I look forward to your next attempt with glee.
I posted a video earlier in the thread that shows just how quickly a situation can go bad when an officer loses sight of a suspect’s hands, even if for only a second or two. In two similar instances a training instructor was able, while having a gun pointed at him, to retrieve a weapon and fire multiple shots at the ‘officer’ (in one case a former police protestor, in the second a newsman, IIRC) before the trainee could react. It is literally the case that any time a suspect’s hands go out of sight, even for a second, a cop can wind up dead.
Yes, me asking you to explain yourself is clear evidence of nefarious intent…is something a stupid person would say.
How many posts until you start claiming you’re “winning” and start trying to have sex with paper towel rolls? That was a winning combination for you last time…is something a stupid person would think.
Where did I defend the officers for macing the handcuffed girl? You keep getting me confused with someone else. This is like the third time you have said this and this is the third time I have asked for a cite. Can you point me to the offending post where I say that its OK to mace someone who is handcuffed to a chair?
[quote]
Yes, teachers are sometimes fired based on allegations alone. But that doesn’t matter, because in this case, it’s not an allegation, it is a finding of fact from a court.
Its a civil case, not criminal. If you don’t understand why that difference is important than just ask.
Beyond a reasonable doubt?
They can certainly be fired without a criminal conviction. They can be fired for violating policy. You have not proven they violated policy. You have only proven that a civil court awarded the plaintiff $4 million.
I find the civil court proceeding of minimal probative value. I think there is enough there to put them at a desk instead of on the street but I have said that twice now and you seem to ignore this because I don’t think they should have their lives ruined before we know what happened.
A civil court award may be enough to establish fact for you but it is not for me.
Its enough to make me take precautions like I have said three times now but its not enough for me to ruin their lives. Cops are entitled to the same due process as anyone else.
Police body CAMs can be requested by defense lawyers to exonerate the defendant. Police body cams are used to exonerate police officers far more frequently than they are used to convict them
I 100% reject the notion that anything I said was racist.
No, I didn’t say that but I could have. I could also have said that those who have been marginalized by poverty sometimes and possibly more often take up illegal activity because that’s what they see on the street, are surrounded by, grow up with and see glamorized in movies and music.
See? I can play that didn’t-say-it-but-could-have game too.
But of course I wasn’t saying that, was I? Is it really your opinion that someone with warrants and facing five years in jail plus its concomitant expense and hassles would only be resisting arrest because at the time it’s going through his mind that some hypothetical white guy somewhere might not get the same time? This sounds…unlikely.
Good thing I don’t think that then, isn’t it? Would you like me to list some of the white suburban area crimes I have personal knowledge of? Committed by white guys or couples too?
[quote=“k9bfriender, post:9725, topic:700942”]
It’s just that it goes without arrests, because the police are concentrating on the poor neighborhoods. (where they don’t have lawyers on retainer.)Yeah, the cops in the cases I’m familiar with were invariably pissed off that they had to come arrest white people because by rights they ought to be out concentrating on poor neighborhoods. Is it really your belief that 100% of police resources are deployed only in poor neighborhoods (where you and I both agree crime is more prevalent, btw) and that all someone has to do if they want to get away with burglary, car theft, rape and assault is to commit it in white areas?
I don’t smoke even the recreational stuff, but I have to admit I’d like to know more about whatever it is you’ve been smoking.
So what? If it can be proven in a court of criminal law that they did that, then they should go to prison for a long time. As far as the effect such a thing has on the community, it should be minimal. Stuff like that is pretty damn rare, I think even you would admit.
Look, facts are supposed to have a liberal bias, right? So why is it that conservatives are always the ones who’ve come to terms with the fact that shit happens, while it’s liberals who’re always whinging because the world isn’t perfect? This is a country of 320 million people. Almost anything you can imagine is going to happen somewhere because of that. And some of it is going to be because some cops somewhere behaved abominably. It happens. And when it does they should be brought to trial and punished. But to go around in a constant state of fear or disgust or outrage because a one-in-a-million occurrence happened and to broad brush police everywhere because of it is both ridiculous and harmful to both the police and the community they serve.
No, you don’t know any such thing.
I don’t think it’s acceptable for the police to terrorize anyone’s neighborhood. But given the overblown hyperbole the left is notorious for, I also doubt that any true ‘terrorizing’ is going on. Instead I think a few bad apple cops misbehave and the country’s SJWs then blow it all out of proportion and attempt to convince people it’s going on everywhere, which then exacerbates the problem and makes things worse for both the police and the people they have to deal with, both of whom develop unhealthy attitudes toward the other as a result.
Nope, I’m not afraid of anything. I’ve said time and again I’ll discuss the issue anytime in the appropriate thread. You keep trying to troll me into getting into it here and that just ain’t gonna happen.
Yes it is, because the context is that you should be posting cites where I’ve said the things you’ve alleged I said. Asking me instead to explain what I really meant is like I said, tacit admission that you lied about it in the first place.
Yes, that is something a stupid person would think. And you’re the one who’s thinking it. Fortunately I never did what you’re alleging here, and I’d bet dollars to donuts you don’t have the slightest idea why I can say that.
You are a moron, an idiot, and a liar. It’s completely escaped your notice that you’re the only one who keeps trying to come back to this. No else gives a shit. They don’t want to hear it. They want to discuss the subject of the thread but because it’s in the Pit you’re allowed to keep trying to hijack it. But all you’re doing in reality is showing your ass and I’m loving it! So keep it up, dipshit. The only person you’re hurting is yourself, although I’m sure you’re too stupid to realize it.
So fucking what? Tasers do not function by causing pain. Pain is a side effect. Tasers cause neural overload, against which PCP is not effective (AFAIK). If he could be brought down by a taser, he could be placed in restraints. Shooting him was the response of an unstable person, someone who should not have had a gun in hand.
).