Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread

They seem to be doing a pretty job of it.

Never thought I’d long for the days of the unjustified patdown.

Sure it does. But “reaching toward his waistband for what may or may not be a gun” as a grounds to shoot someone is not a reasonable standard that I believe police should be trained to.

AP story here

For those that don’t remember or don’t want to click the link and read the article, Miss Damond is the woman who called police to report a possible sexual assault in an alleyway and was shot and killed by one of the responding officers.

We see it so often, I wonder if the prior firing is used as a positive hiring qualification by some forces.

Yes.

It would have worked, too - if it weren’t for you meddling kids!

Regards,
Shodan

Video game ‘swatting’ leads to non-gamer getting shot by Wichita police: Police investigating if Call of Duty dispute led to deadly swatting incident

Call of Duty, two people talking smack, one threatens to ‘swat’ the other (call in a fake crisis to get the police to raid a house). The threatened player gives a fake address claiming a shooting and hostages, a single (?) officer shows up and a 28 year old ends up shot. No details of what led to the shooting yet.

I’m not an expert but when all the experts say that this poses a real threat, then we can just ignore the opinions of all the experts or we can substitute our own judgment. Heck plenty of people do the same thing with global warming so why not police procedure too.

Still shooting a guy who is face down on the ground and reaching for his waistband seem unreasonable.

So, for the pro-police side of the debate here. Which cases of police killing civilians do you think were not justified?

Which of them do you think wouldn’t have justified if it was a civilian delivering the killing shot in the same situation.

For the police critics, how many police shootings do you think have been criticized in the press?

How many have caused marches?

Obviously the prick who phone in a fake crisis needs to face some sort of consequence, but still, isn’t there at least some procedure for establishing that there is, in fact, a crisis in progress?

Here’s an article about the Wichita shooting:

I just don’t see any reason why the officer fired his gun.

How does “possibly reaching for what may or may not be a gun” pose a real threat?

These fucking idiots are out of control. When cops do this, they should ultimately be stoned by the public that will pay millions in the wrongful death suit.

“I was scared”

That’s the standard now. An imagined threat is a threat.

I’m not saying that an officer’s job is easy - I wouldn’t want to be an officer. Still, they’re working in the public interest and public trust. If “I was scared” doesn’t work for the average person - and it doesn’t - then it shouldn’t work for an officer, who’s supposed to have more training.

That’s why the standard should be “I saw a gun and it was pointed in my direction”

Unfortunately, any shiny or metallic object is a “gun”. Keys, cell phone, or a handful of change could all be considered a weapon.

The killers need to be tried and convicted. They need to lose their job and pensions. The chief of the department needs to be sacked too. Ultimately they cannot be allowed to resign and move to another department.

No argument - that used to be the standard. But IIRC there’s been some “guru” who has gone around the country training departments and this guy’s message is that an officer’s #1 job is to get home alive - everything else comes second.

As someone who personally knows an officer who died in the line of duty, and as someone who’s known several officers and all the dangers they face, I want officers to return home alive. But that can’t be more important than the job of protecting public safety, which means they can’t be just as dangerous as the criminals they’re pursuing.

If the standard for police work is “I was afraid”, we are all in serious danger. It could be any of us. You get stopped in a routine traffic stop. An officer asks for your license and registration. You reach into your glove box and the officer "thinks’ he sees something that looks like a firearm and starts unloading his clip into your thorax.

Screw them getting home alive. They signed up for protecting and serving the public. Getting their jollies off killing unarmed citizens should not go unpunished. They need to be held to the highest standard.

That’s what the Loveland CO police did in the case I was a juror on last month. They had a detective observe the scene for long enough to make sure it was a legitimate call, because they had had a swatting call a month earlier.