# Controversial new Martin Luther King statue - What do you think? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 7, 2011, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151 "2011-07-07T06:45:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/61 "2011-10-04T21:08:59Z")
Couldn’t they have just dug up his skull and put clay on it or something? ---
**Author:** ![Susanb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@Susanb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanb)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/62 "2011-10-05T17:02:54Z")
OK. This is how you make a HUGE national Monument (mess) by committee (off the record and just “word on the street” and my interpretation of events): In 2000, **ROMA Design Group** is given the job of designing the MLK monument. They design the circle of quotations and have a small granite mountain in the center with inscription. There are the following groups involved: one COMMITTEE, and One COMMISSION as well as many powerful people from the government and the private sector. With all of these people involved you can already see that the monument is going to be a mess. It’s a committee made monument not an artist monument. Several on the committee demand an actual statue of Dr. King next to the mountain or part of it. \*\*The ROMA Design Group \*\*says that the present design does not allow for a person/statue integrated with their present design. They committee awarded them the contract based on this design but now wants a figurine added to it? ROMA says they would have to scrap their design and restart if they wanted a figurine done. They ROMA Design Group is fired or basically just \*\*refuses to add a statue popping out of a mountain because \*\*\*\*“it will look ridiculous.” \*_Then the committee hires another architect_ (using this word loosely) \*to add a statue to the mountain design done by the other group. This design actually went to many artists all over the United States to try and “fix it up” the “NEW DESIGN” (and each one added their own little bit of mess) when they should have scrapped it and went with the original ROMA Design ( or scrapped the entire mountain concept.) \*\*AGAIN, design by committee is never a good idea. \*\* Mr. Lei in China was brought in fairly late when the “mess” was already drawn out to paper. They had already doubled the size/height of the ROMA design with a statue popping out of it. Mr. Lei did HUGE sculptures like this in CHINA. He had just finished another enormous Mao statue. SO, he was chosen! I don’t really like his style of art but he never really designed this whole mess himself. He came in toward the middle of the project (sort of like a contractor). Mr. Lei addition to the design of the product seems really to be mainly the face. The face that really doesn’t look like Dr. King but Mr. Lei tried. The committee, the family, the government people, the private group and the commission all sent notes back and forth about what is wrong with the present monument around 2007-2010. Although it was doomed from the start when they altered and fired the original design group to let another “group” of people and committees figure out what it should look like. Little changes, here, little there—change the eyes; change the mouth, “can it look less stiff?”, “Can he looks less angry?”…all this went on for months. But these little changes would not change the fact from an ARTIST standpoint this was an ugly statue/monument. And by now, it was also difficult for most of the DC committees and artists to see the structure because it was being built entirely in China. They had to go by notes and photos sent to them from China. They would then ask for changes by email or letter to China. Did most of the requested changes get added? Most likely quite a few did not. The Fine Arts commission has final say on the project but they had little choice at the end but to allow it. SO much money had been spent. “Just finish the ugly thing and be done with it. Many people will just be in awe because it soo HUGE. “ But is this art? Most artists will say no. LOL…ANY artist will say no. The commission will say no…lol (if they are honest and you catch them alone). And that is how you make a monument by committee and not by using a dedicated group of artists with one vision. Of course, this is just **my interpretation of events**. Just “word on the street stuff”😉 ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/63 "2011-10-05T17:56:03Z")
It’s pretty obviously Dr. King and I don’t think it’s a bad statue at all- as others have said, much better than many of the others cluttering the Mall (I’m looking at you, WW2 Memorial. . .). That said, I definitely get a hint of a Dr. Dre vibe from it, which I have to admit made me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/64 "2011-10-05T18:42:40Z")
I think the statue looks fine, but the controversy does remind me of a passage in Mark Twain’s _The Innocents Abroad_: > [@](#): > > I saw in the Sandwich Islands, once, a picture copied by a talented German artist from an engraving in one of the American illustrated papers. It was an allegory, representing Mr. [Jefferson] Davis in the act of signing a secession act or some such document. Over him hovered the ghost of Washington in warning attitude, and in the background a troop of shadowy soldiers in Continental uniform were limping with shoeless, bandaged feet through a driving snow-storm. Valley Forge was suggested, of course. The copy seemed accurate, and yet there was a discrepancy somewhere. After a long examination I discovered what it was–the shadowy soldiers were all Germans! Jeff Davis was a German! even the hovering ghost was a German ghost! The artist had unconsciously worked his nationality into the picture. To tell the truth, I am getting a little perplexed about John the Baptist and his portraits. In France I finally grew reconciled to him as a Frenchman; here he is unquestionably an Italian. What next? Can it be possible that the painters make John the Baptist a Spaniard in Madrid and an Irishman in Dublin? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/65 "2011-10-05T19:16:18Z")
In discussing the controversy with a Chinese friend, I cracked her up by saying “It’s not the likeness or the quote on the _front_ that bothers people, it’s the “Your lucky numbers are: 8, 17, 33, 12” on the back.” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/66 "2011-10-05T19:25:03Z")
Even if it does look vaguely Communist bloc…so what? Do you think China doesn’t have any western-style statues? I’m sure China has plenty of dumb “general in uniform on a horse on a pedestal” statues. How obnoxious would they look if they started ranting about it being some kind of horrible imposition by their western oppressors. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/67 "2011-10-05T19:50:54Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > That said, I definitely get a hint of a Dr. Dre vibe from it, which I have to admit made me laugh. _Rev._ Dr. Dre. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/68 "2011-10-06T09:58:49Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > To my eye, untrained as it is, the statue does tend toward a Socialist Realism that is not popular in monumental work in this country - for good reason. When the CFA made their comment about statues being torn down they were spot on. That good reason was that the statues were the symbols of their oppressors. Last I checked, we weren’t oppressed by any socialists. As for the claims of Socialist Realism, I just don’t see it. I think people are mixing up the style of the artist with the concept artistic concept. Tell me which of the four tenants of Socialist Realism are being invoked: [ol] [li]Proletarian: art relevant to the workers and understandable to them.[/li][li] Typical: scenes of every day life of the people.[/li][li] Realistic: in the representational sense.[/li][li] Partisan: supportive of the aims of the State and the Party.[/li][/ol] I don’t know how to address the first part, since all monuments are by design easy to understand. The second one: he very much does not appear to be doing something in everyday life. And people are arguing mostly about the fact that it doesn’t look realistic. And I cannot see how it supports the Communist Party. I don’t have a problem with people saying they dislike the art. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. But I think people are projecting a lot of crap onto this. The real legitimate concern is just that the work was outsourced out of country, rather than to American workers, in a time when that is politically unfavorable. While there is a claim that no artist could be found that would do it, I suspect they just wouldn’t do it for the money offered. In other words, they went for the cheaper labor they could get in China. That might actually be of legitimate concern. That some people don’t like the style? Cry me a river. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/69 "2011-10-06T10:33:20Z")
I actually donated money towards the project. I like it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/70 "2011-10-06T11:25:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That good reason was that the statues were the symbols of their oppressors. Last I checked, we weren’t oppressed by any socialists. Well, there are some what say different… 😃 > [@](#): > > As for the claims of Socialist Realism, I just don’t see it. I think it’s just the slightly blocky style, especially of the clothing, that suggests a Socialist Realism connection. I don’t think it’s deliberate. I get the Han Solo vibe more than anything else but IMO it’s a good likeness nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/71 "2011-10-06T11:32:27Z")
nm - double post ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/72 "2011-10-06T15:25:22Z")
A question for you art experts:in the good 'ol days of communism, the Russians had busts of Lenin on every street corner-were these things mass-produced? I expect that they had a No.6 sculpture factory churning these things out. Likewais in China with Mao-I expect the King statue is just a leftover Mao statue with updated features. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/73 "2011-10-06T16:19:05Z")
> [@Bryan910](#): > > [http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i369/martin431/threekings.jpg](http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i369/martin431/threekings.jpg) > (above is a photo of King, the statue, and Chairman Mao) Does this looks like they overlaid Kings facemask over a Mao statue or am I wrong? The face is not REALLY Dr. Kings. > > Notice the eyes are DEFINITELY narrower (Dr. King had hooded eyes but not Asian eyes), the forehead is broader and squarer… Try referring to [a view of the entire statue](http://summitvoice.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/mlk.jpg) instead of just the face, which looks as if someone had been playing with the aspect ratio. ETA: Is it me or does the statue have a cocked eyebrow? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/74 "2011-10-06T16:49:33Z")
This was definitely not the discussion I was expecting when I opened this thread. Locally (the DC area) the controversy is not about possible Asian features, it’s about the [paraphrasing of MLK’s words](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/martin-luther-king-a-drum-major-if-you-say-so/2011/08/25/gIQAmmUkeJ_story.html) [QUOTE=MLK] Yes, if you want to say that I was a drum major, say that I was a drum major for justice. Say that I was a drum major for peace. I was a drum major for righteousness. And all of the other shallow things will not matter. [/QUOTE] Was written as "“I was a drum major for justice, peace and righteousness.” This basically reverses the entire intent of his words. In his actual words he is trying to humbly downplay his role as a drum major for the civil rights movement, while the altered phrase makes it sound like he was arrogantly tooting his own horn. As a quick fix, I think they should remove the words “I was” and just leave the phrase “A drum major for justice, peace and righteousness” Indicating that this is how we should see him. Not what he called himself. Any thoughts on this controversy? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/75 "2011-10-06T16:58:58Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Any thoughts on this controversy? To me it is just part of an overall poor memorial execution. And King does deserve better, just as FDR deserves a better memorial than that disorganized mess called the FDR Memorial on the Mall. ---
**Author:** ![Ceejaytee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ceejaytee/32/2956_2.png) [@Ceejaytee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ceejaytee)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151/76 "2011-10-06T17:53:54Z")
I saw this right after it opened. I think it’s a great statue, frankly. It’s huge and impressive and I found it quite moving. I didn’t hear anyone complaining about it. It was a moving experience–many black people were crying, taking pictures from every angle, hugging strangers, and asking each other if they thought their kids would ever understand what a huge deal it was for MLK to have a memorial on the mall, these kids who have known a black president. I loved it. Sure, some of that was the timing, and the crowds surrounding it, but he’s looking out over the Tidal Basin with his arms crossed like an unmovable force. I liked it very much. Also, I disagree with Mr. Moto. I think the FDR memorial is terrific. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-new-martin-luther-king-statue-what-do-you-think/588151.md?page=3)