# Conveniently forgotten historical facts **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 26, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087 "2009-06-26T17:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/121 "2009-07-02T21:45:59Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > I bothered with writing my post because people commonly believe that Hitler was elected. He wasn’t. Whether he was the logical choice for chancellor is an entirely different issue, which I have no desire to get into. “Being elected” is perfectly reasonable shorthand for being the head of the party winning the largest number of seats, and being chosen to lead a coalition government, in a parliamentary system. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/122 "2009-07-02T23:19:23Z")
In “Stonewall at 40,” Frank Rich [celebrates](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/opinion/28rich.html?_r=1)in the NYT the June 28, 1969 Greenwich Village drag bar riot that symbolically launched the gay liberation era, and on Monday, President Obama will commemorate Stonewall with an East Room reception for gay leaders. Rich never mentions, and I suspect that Obama won’t either, that the catalyst for the riot was Judy Garland’s funeral the previous day, and that most of the rioters were cross-dressers. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/123 "2009-07-02T23:24:23Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > “Being elected” is perfectly reasonable shorthand for being the head of the party winning the largest number of seats, and being chosen to lead a coalition government, in a parliamentary system. True, but again, we’re not quite dealing with a parliamentary system here. Among other things, in a parliamentary system one generally is elected to a seat in the parliament first. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/124 "2009-07-02T23:25:11Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > So your argument is that there must be more that were used because we found evidence of one that _wasn’t?_ Sorry, bucko, but if there is one feature of governments it is that they make paper trails in even minor issues. Yeah, black ops generate lots of paperwork that survives twenty-five years later. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/125 "2009-07-02T23:28:37Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > True, but again, we’re not quite dealing with a parliamentary system here. Among other things, in a parliamentary system one generally is elected to a seat in the parliament first. Unless one is John Tory ;). (Yes, I know he was party leader, not Parliament leader, but same principle. Plus, any chance to make fun of that jackass is worth it.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/126 "2009-07-03T07:26:57Z")
Not really a conveniently forgotten fact but something amazing I just read. President John Tyler, who was born during George Washington’s first year as President, has two living grandchildren. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/127 "2009-07-03T10:05:34Z")
athelas writes: \> Rich never mentions, and I suspect that Obama won’t either, that the catalyst \> for the riot was Judy Garland’s funeral the previous day, and that most of the \> rioters were cross-dressers. It appears that the Stonewall riots had nothing to do with Judy Garland’s funeral. See footnote 5: > **[Stonewall riots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots)** > > The Stonewall riots, also known as the Stonewall uprising, Stonewall rebellion, or simply Stonewall, were a series of spontaneous protests by members of the gay community\[note 1\] in response to a police raid that began in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, at the Stonewall Inn in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of Lower Manhattan in New York City. Patrons of the Stonewall, other Village lesbian and gay bars, and neighborhood street people fought back when the police became violent. ... ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/128 "2009-07-04T23:10:06Z")
Neville Chamberlain’s [actual actions](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain#European_policy) before the start of WWII (vs the American history version “If it hadn’t been for Chamberlain and his weak policy of appeasement the war never would have happened”. Conveniently forgetting that Chamberlain declared war with Germany on 3 September 1939 so as to not have to answer the question of just what the fuck we were waiting for.). CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![AppallingGael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@AppallingGael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AppallingGael)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/129 "2009-07-04T23:55:07Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > It appears that the Stonewall riots had nothing to do with Judy Garland’s funeral. See footnote 5: > > [Stonewall riots - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots) The note says the rumor was started by a “heterosexual publication”. So was it Playboy or Penthouse? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/130 "2009-07-05T03:33:56Z")
After doing a lot of searching, I find that the story that the Stonewall riots had anything to do with Judy Garland’s death apparently originated in the column “Last Call” in _The Village Voice_. It was written by Walter Troy Spencer, appeared on July 10, 1969, and was titled “Too Much, My Dear.” It’s on page 36 of the newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/131 "2009-07-05T04:12:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Not really a conveniently forgotten fact but something amazing I just read. President John Tyler, who was born during George Washington’s first year as President, has two living grandchildren. Wow! ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/132 "2009-07-05T07:25:20Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > the democratically-elected Marxist government of Afghanistan Now THERE’S an oxymoron! “Democratically-elected Marxist” state? Would you have voted for Gus Hall or Earl Browder? I do not consider the dictatorship of the proletariat to be a democracy. And I believe Lenin didn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/133 "2009-07-05T21:01:01Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > How does this work, exactly? Was the former owner of the slave compensated, or did he just take the loss? If the latter, how did a government get away with pissing off their aristocracy slave owners? They accepted runaways from Patriots, not Loyalists. From Lord Dunmore’s proclamation: > [@](#): > > And I do hereby further declare all indented Servants, Negroes, or others, (appertaining to Rebels,) free that are able and willing to bear Arms, they joining His MAJESTY’S Troops as soon as may be, for the more speedily reducing this Colony to a proper Sense of their Duty, to His MAJESTY’S Crown and Dignity. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/134 "2009-07-06T17:07:06Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > The role of everybody in the [Revolutionary] war is almost always neglected. How much military history do you think students get? I’m talking more about popular history than history taught in school. Living through the Bicentennial as a kid, with all the concomitant attention to the Revolution in the popular media, I would have thought that the entire war was fought from New England to the Mid Atlantic states (with a quick dip to Yorktown to wrap things up). I think in the popular mind, the war is associated mostly with Boston, Philadelphia and New York, and most people have no clue about the fighting in the South, or that victory was won there. Mel Gibson’s _The Patriot_ was really the first bit of popular history to take note of the Southern Campaign and its pivotal part in the Revolution. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/135 "2009-07-06T17:22:52Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Nope, Merrimac became Virginia. Merrimac is a river in (Vermont? Montpelier is on it, I think). Montpelier is on the Winooski River. The Merrimac River rises in new Hampshire, and empties into the Atlantic in Massachusetts. ---
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/136 "2009-07-06T17:43:28Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > I’m talking more about popular history than history taught in school. Living through the Bicentennial as a kid, with all the concomitant attention to the Revolution in the popular media, I would have thought that the entire war was fought from New England to the Mid Atlantic states (with a quick dip to Yorktown to wrap things up). I think in the popular mind, the war is associated mostly with Boston, Philadelphia and New York, and most people have no clue about the fighting in the South, or that victory was won there. > > Mel Gibson’s _The Patriot_ was really the first bit of popular history to take note of the Southern Campaign and its pivotal part in the Revolution. I can second this, but I grew up north of Valley Forge, so it is not surprising that the media mostly focused on the Philadelphia area during the Bicentennial. I would assume that the North Carolina media focused on more local events, but perhaps I’m wrong. If you include books as part of popular history, then I know at least one book on George Washington covers it. I also believe a popular history of the Revolutionary War (_Spirit of 1776_?) covered it. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/137 "2009-07-07T02:59:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Not really a conveniently forgotten fact but something amazing I just read. President John Tyler, who was born during George Washington’s first year as President, has two living grandchildren. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Wow! That is a big WOW! Tyler was born in 1790 and has two grandchildren still living..219 years later. From Wiki “As of 2009, Tyler has two living grandsons through his son Lyon Gardiner Tyler (1853-1935). Lyon Gardiner Tyler, Jr., was born in 1924, and Harrison Ruffin Tyler was born in 1928.” Lyon fathered his last at age 75! Go Lyon! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/138 "2009-07-07T08:43:12Z")
Astonishing. Grandfather, father and son born in three successive centuries, and the last of them living into a fourth. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/139 "2009-07-07T09:36:08Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It was (1681), by 11,000 dutchmen, led by William of Orange. Is it really an invasion if you invite them over? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087/140 "2009-07-07T14:59:37Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Neville Chamberlain’s [actual actions](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain#European_policy) before the start of WWII (vs the American history version “If it hadn’t been for Chamberlain and his weak policy of appeasement the war never would have happened”. Conveniently forgetting that Chamberlain declared war with Germany on 3 September 1939 so as to not have to answer the question of just what the fuck we were waiting for.). > > CMC fnord! Here here! When Germany annexed all of Czechoslovakia, Chamberlain changed his tune and became hostile to Germany. He started the preparation for war then. He played hardball with Germany and declared war in 1939 when they attacked Poland. The man misjudged a situation but rapidly changed his behavior when he saw he was wrong. For that, he is maligned throughout history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conveniently-forgotten-historical-facts/501087.md?page=8)