# Conviction rates for rape should be low, efforts to raise them are inherently unjust **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630 "2012-12-10T19:01:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630/102 "2012-12-25T18:07:14Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I saw an SNL sketch on youtube, about avoiding allegations of sexual harrassment. The three pieces of advice it ended with were “Be attractive, don’t be unattractive and be attractive”. What men do to be regarded as creepy or to be successful lovers is basically the same, the difference is whether the woman wants that particular man to do it. The rom-com rapist scenario. Yes, women get to choose who they are or are not attracted to, just as men do. I am not seeing the injustice here. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630/103 "2012-12-26T10:55:49Z")
> [@colander](#): > > Yes, women get to choose who they are or are not attracted to, just as men do. I am not seeing the injustice here. The injustice is in acting as if a certain behaviour is wrong in an absolute sense, when actually it’s only wrong because on who’s doing it. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630/104 "2012-12-26T14:43:31Z")
It’s not wrong because of who is doing it, it’s wrong because of it being unwanted. The reasons it is unwanted are entirely up to the woman in question. That shouldn’t be a difficult concept. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Elliot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jane_elliot/32/6166_2.png) [@Jane\_Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630/105 "2012-12-26T15:14:47Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > The injustice is in acting as if a certain behaviour is wrong in an absolute sense, when actually it’s only wrong because on who’s doing it. I don’t think anyone has said that a specific behavior is wrong in an absolute sense. Whether a specific behavior gets judged as wrong is based on the circumstances and often those circumstances involve consent. Rape and sexual harassment are not specific behaviors but involve a range of actions that can be judged as harmless or criminal based on the circumstances. So which behaviors are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630/106 "2012-12-28T00:40:59Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > The injustice is in acting as if a certain behaviour is wrong in an absolute sense, when actually it’s only wrong because on who’s doing it. Someone I’ve lent my car to driving off with it: not wrong. Some random person driving off with it: wrong. So is driving someone else’s car wrong or not? It’s totally unjust for it to depend on who’s doing it, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630/107 "2012-12-28T00:56:19Z")
I think there might be a miscommunication here, I think blindboyard is talking about situations where a guy goes up to a girl and says “want to come to my place for some alone time?” The exact same statement can get a guy laid or labeled a complete skeeze depending on whether he’s hot to the woman in question. The point isn’t that the woman should have to say yes, it’s that there’s a line between “sicko pervert” and “I’m simply uninterested” that’s sometimes abused. I.E. it’s not cool to label someone a “predator” or a “creep” (or talk at length about how they “felt threatened”) for saying the exact same thing that would have gotten Adonis laid with you because he’s not attractive/kind of awkward. Turn him down and be uninterested, sure, but don’t act like he’s a predator. That said, while I’m sure this happens, I think a lot of guys overblow how vicious women are to guys who are inept. Women, in general, are socialized to be overly polite if anything. I don’t think I’ve really ever see a woman just tear into a slightly shy non-uber-hot man except in the **already** uber-crazy circles on the internet, and honestly, they’re still probably kinder than Alpha-male (or worse, Pick-up artist) types are to these guys. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630/108 "2012-12-28T01:19:08Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I think there might be a miscommunication here, I think blindboyard is talking about situations where a guy goes up to a girl and says “want to come to my place for some alone time?” The exact same statement can get a guy laid or labeled a complete skeeze depending on whether he’s hot to the woman in question. The point isn’t that the woman should have to say yes, it’s that there’s a line between “sicko pervert” and “I’m simply uninterested” that’s sometimes abused. I.E. it’s not cool to label someone a “predator” or a “creep” (or talk at length about how they “felt threatened”) for saying the exact same thing that would have gotten Adonis laid with you because he’s not attractive/kind of awkward. Turn him down and be uninterested, sure, but don’t act like he’s a predator. No miscommunication. We have heard **blindboyard’s** “point” (and his SNL sketch, come to think of it) brought up many times before. It is nothing new. There are indeed a wealth of humans with ferocious bitterness stemming from the fact that not every person who they personally find attractive wants to have sex with them. I find this more than a little… solopsistic, shall we say. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630/109 "2012-12-28T01:22:26Z")
> [@colander](#): > > No miscommunication. We have heard **blindboyard’s** “point” (and his SNL sketch, come to think of it) brought up many times before. It is nothing new. There are indeed a wealth of humans with ferocious bitterness stemming from the fact that not every person who they personally find attractive wants to have sex with them. > > I find this more than a little… solopsistic, shall we say. Okay, I’ll take your word for it that that’s what he meant based on his history, it’s just that’s how I interpreted the most recent post. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630/110 "2012-12-28T16:24:39Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I think there might be a miscommunication here, I think blindboyard is talking about situations where a guy goes up to a girl and says “want to come to my place for some alone time?” The exact same statement can get a guy laid or labeled a complete skeeze depending on whether he’s hot to the woman in question. Well, **colander** ’s post aside, I don’t see a problem with this, and in this situation I’m rarely the dude who gets laid\*. I mean, the guy probably shouldn’t go to jail over it but the risk of rejection is a cost of doing business, so to speak. \*Even though I’m a Doper! ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630/111 "2012-12-28T19:48:32Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > Well, **colander** ’s post aside, I don’t see a problem with this, and in this situation I’m rarely the dude who gets laid\*. I mean, the guy probably shouldn’t go to jail over it but the risk of rejection is a cost of doing business, so to speak. > > \*Even though I’m a Doper! Like I said, the problem isn’t rejection, rejection is fine and to be expected, it’s the mocking and labeling as a skeeze or predator or “threatening person”. Also like I said though, I don’t find this to actually be a thing that happens outside of crazy internetland. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conviction-rates-for-rape-should-be-low-efforts-to-raise-them-are-inherently-unjust/643630.md?page=5)