# Convicts breaking rocks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482 "2013-10-28T20:28:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/21 "2013-10-29T11:23:17Z")
Correctional Custody is actually a military prison or jail system, for really bad eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/22 "2013-10-29T11:41:55Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > The idea that work has an inherent reformatory power is an idea that emerged at the same time as, and together with, the American penal system. The idea that prisoners should work to reduce the cost of their incarceration, or at least do a good for society (as in training guide dogs) has wide appeal in the present day. The idea of work as a reformatory power maybe, but the use of penal prisoners for work? As old as galleys at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/23 "2013-10-29T12:54:03Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Several states, [including California](http://www.folsomprisonmuseum.org/now/now11a.html), still use prisoners for the manufacture of license plates. In my state they still use convicts to make plates, but they’ve switched from the old stamping mills to a digital printing process. So now it’s more of a white-collar job running the computers and mailing the plates and such. Also, we have a huge number of custom “organization” plates, which the convicts do the graphic layout on and in some cases actually do the artistic design on. I think it’s interesting that what was originally a menial punitive job has evolved into something that has real vocational value. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/24 "2013-10-29T13:34:07Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Do New Hampshire prisons share this policy? It seems a little cruel and unusual to have NH inmates continually embossing the state motto “ **Live free or die** ” onto license plates day in and day out, all the while attached to their ball and chain… Bill Morrissey, the folksinger, had a[song about that.](https://myspace.com/billmorrissey/music/song/live-free-or-die-81012307-89259125) ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/25 "2013-10-29T13:42:10Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > “[In the Gravel Yard](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVrHShaJbIk).” _…makin’ little rocks out of big rocks all day…_ Obligatory song link #2:[Nina Simone’s “Work Song”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVNvlPAT4aE). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/26 "2013-10-29T14:46:12Z")
Some prisoners now work in [call centers](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4505278). > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > One result of this is you end up with what we call “six men on a broom” - you have more prisoners than you have actual work so you end up dividing jobs up among several people. You might have a prisoner whose “job” is to empty out the wastebaskets twice a day. Prisons _are_ government offices, after all. 😉 (j/k; I’m a bureaucrat myself). ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/27 "2013-10-29T18:37:52Z")
Bumper sticker seen on an Illinois car: “Illinois - where our ex-governors make our license plates” ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/28 "2013-10-29T19:17:08Z")
Oh, also if you want some physical evidence that convicts did indeed make license plates, ours actually used to say “Prison Made” on them. Despite how it looks, this was not the Montana state motto at the time: [http://licenseplatesselect.biz/vintage-1961-prison-made-montana-truck-license-plate-59-pressed-in-plate/](http://licenseplatesselect.biz/vintage-1961-prison-made-montana-truck-license-plate-59-pressed-in-plate/) ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/29 "2013-10-29T19:32:22Z")
Here in South Dakota we have [Pheasantland Industries](http://doc.sd.gov/adult/industry/) run by the DOC. Also, some low risk prisoners are used to help clean up after storms or groundskeeping or other tasks at the various government entities such as college campuses. When I went to the state archives, they had a prisoner working there assisting customers. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/30 "2013-10-29T21:13:58Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > I believe that one of the major laws being circumvented here is the Federal Minimum Wage. Nope. Wage laws don’t apply to prisoners. In fact, prisoners can be required to work without pay. It’s right there in the 13th Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted** , shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. However, there’s Federal a law that requires prisoners to be paid equal to free labor _if they make products that move in interstate commerce_. [The Ashurst Sumners Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashurst%E2%80%93Sumners_Act). Note that the law doesn’t apply to products that are never sold across state lines (which includes products made in state prisons which are sold back to the same state), or to services, or to certified wage-parity programs. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/31 "2013-10-29T21:19:30Z")
I have friends that are New York state corrections officers. Different prisons have different shops. One does metal work, another wood, another sews clothes etc… All the items are for state use only like filing cabinets or desks, not sold on the open market to undercut private buisnesses. The metalworking shop I was told about where my friend works, said the inmates working there generally had 10 years in before they were consiered for a job there. Long enough to prove they are reliable and it’s a reward for good behaviour. They don’t want a malcontent in front of a punch press feeding in thousands of dollars of metal all day and intentionally doing it wrong and making scrap. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/32 "2013-10-29T21:25:35Z")
> [@Bomb Killed Them](#): > > Some prisoners now work in [call centers](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4505278). “Good evenin’. T’anks fer callin’ Comcast Customer Soivice. My name is Rocco. How can I help youse t’day?” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/33 "2013-10-29T21:33:57Z")
Prisoners also helped build the Ohio Statehouse: [Ohio Statehouse - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_State_House#Description) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/34 "2013-10-29T21:47:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > One result of this is you end up with what we call “six men on a broom” - you have more prisoners than you have actual work so you end up dividing jobs up among several people. You might have a prisoner whose “job” is to empty out the wastebaskets twice a day. > [@Bomb Killed Them](#): > > Prisons _are_ government offices, after all. 😉 > > (j/k; I’m a bureaucrat myself). I won’t defend it. It’s a dumb policy in my opinion. I think they’d be better off creating a certain number of real jobs that needed to be done and giving these to the number of prisoners needed to fill those jobs. They’d get pay and privileges and the other prisoners would be “unemployed”. In my opinion, this would foster the idea that a job is something valuable that you sought out and not just something automatic that you try to evade. ---
**Author:** ![sidecar\_jon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@sidecar\_jon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sidecar_jon)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/35 "2013-10-29T21:57:10Z")
I was up on Dartmoor the other day and next to the grim Victorian Prison there is indeed a big quarry as well as lots of neatly made stone walls all over the place, seems stone formed a big part of prison work in the old days. ---
**Author:** ![bonitahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7993a0/32.png) [@bonitahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonitahi)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/36 "2013-10-29T22:16:45Z")
I have always heard it was to build character. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/37 "2013-10-29T23:04:01Z")
At last, a video of prisoners busting rocks with sledgehammers: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5xnc1p7BMk) ---
**Author:** ![chinchalinchin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@chinchalinchin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chinchalinchin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/38 "2013-10-29T23:06:41Z")
I’m from Maryland and I know at the WCI federal prison, the prisoners make furniture for schoolrooms and the the prison sells to the state at ridiculously inflated prices since they have an exclusive contract or something. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/39 "2013-10-30T02:52:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > … this would foster the idea that a job is something valuable that you sought out and not just something automatic that you try to evade. In this thread, **SSG Schwartz** says (among many other interesting things) that jobs inside his military prison are valued by prisoners both for the money you can earn, and to fill the time: [I work in a military prison. Ask me anything. - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=631030) ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482/40 "2013-10-30T04:23:42Z")
What about Prison Blues (jeans)? According to their website they’re made in a prison, and I know they are (or were last time I went to the local army / navy store) available commercially. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convicts-breaking-rocks/672482.md?page=3)