# Convince me I should believe in your god **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033 "2013-08-24T04:47:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/201 "2013-09-08T14:56:14Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > And there we have it - the gospel according to razncain. And the gospel according to **Conservian**? If I’m wrong in my assessment, feel free to point it out. > [@](#): > > Put things in their proper perspective. Man does not choose God. But God does choose the man. You have spoken on his behalf various things in this thread including what makes God happy. First determine if God exists, then you can decide on what attributes he has. It seems to vary with everyone claiming to know him on a more intimate level. > [@](#): > > I’m skeptical of the sincerity in many of the questions posters are asking me in this thread. Examples? Or will this be another thing you’re incapable of not following up on much like the thread title and everything else brought up thus far. > [@](#): > > Suggestion: stick to the Gospels, and the Epistles were written for believers. Okay, in the gospels, Jesus says one must change and become as a child in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. How did you go about that change? In the epistles, Paul says, “We are fools for Christ’s sake.” Elsewhere,“God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." Is that what attracted you to it? It’s good to know that “God is not the author of confusion” and that over 35,000 different Protestant sects (and growing) of Christianity have a good understanding of it all. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/202 "2013-09-09T01:39:25Z")
Which leads to a difficult question. The various christian sects claim the same god but apply specs and requirements that point to differing versions of that god. If one were to be convinced to believe in the lutheran god, would one in fact believe then in the baptist god? Or the catholic god? The mormon god? The salafist god? How would one resolve these conflicts? ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/203 "2013-09-09T22:24:41Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > True. But the man must be willing and welcome the change. God imposes on no one’s free will. To do so would be to deny His Own. > > Aloha > [@razncain](#): > > And the gospel according to **Conservian**? If I’m wrong in my assessment, feel free to point it out. > > You have spoken on his behalf various things in this thread including what makes God happy. First determine if God exists, then you can decide on what attributes he has. It seems to vary with everyone claiming to know him on a more intimate level. > > Examples? Or will this be another thing you’re incapable of not following up on much like the thread title and everything else brought up thus far. > > Okay, in the gospels, Jesus says one must change and become as a child in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. How did you go about that change? In the epistles, Paul says, “We are fools for Christ’s sake.” Elsewhere,“God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." Is that what attracted you to it? > > It’s good to know that “God is not the author of confusion” and that over 35,000 different Protestant sects (and growing) of Christianity have a good understanding of it all. So many questions with so little sincerity:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/204 "2013-09-09T22:33:38Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > So many questions with so little sincerity:dubious: So much talking with so few answers. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/205 "2013-09-09T23:28:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So much talking with so few answers. So much hearing without listening. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/206 "2013-09-09T23:31:19Z")
What I’m listening for are things that pertain to the OP. Could you please point them out to me? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/207 "2013-09-10T00:36:48Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Well, they will get their opportunity to explain what and why they believed the way they did. They will then be judged according to those standards. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/208 "2013-09-10T02:00:30Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > So many questions with so little sincerity:dubious: So incapable of follow-up it will be. You are long on accusation, short on substance. > [@jsutter](#): > > So much hearing without listening. Note the irony of yet another who can’t get past the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/209 "2013-09-10T22:25:44Z")
[quote=“razncain, post:208, topic:667033”] So incapable of follow-up it will be. You are long on accusation, short on substance. But apparently not as “short” as your own memory appears to be - post #124. Any serious attempt at “follow-up” after an addmission like that would be a 'fool’s errand. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/210 "2013-09-10T22:38:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What I’m listening for are things that pertain to the OP. Could you please point them out to me? Still need help? Aloha ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/211 "2013-09-10T22:52:47Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Cite? NT - Romans 2:1. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/212 "2013-09-10T23:09:08Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > NT - Romans 2:1. [QUOTE= Romans 2:1] You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. [/QUOTE] hmmm, seems appropriate for your sign off Conservian… Perhaps you should have quoted 6-11 [QUOTE=Romans 2:6-11] 6\*\* God “will repay each person according to what they have done.**”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11** For God does not show favoritism.\*\* [/QUOTE] Have a pleasant day… ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/213 "2013-09-10T23:11:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What I’m listening for are things that pertain to the OP. Could you please point them out to me? Since you ask. For context, the OP. > [@For You](#): > > I invite any and all believers to put forth compelling reasons for me to believe in god. I am a hard case, but I will not be combative (just annoyingly passive-aggressive with my questions). > … > So, what have you got? Not _a_ god, **but make the case for _your_ god**. In your own words, scripture will summarily be ignored, as will fighting words (from any side). Just musing now. Anyone with half a brain has asked, who/what am I? Philosophical millennia of pondering the subject has but returned the question, who’s asking? lol. The obvious answer is, me. So, who/what me be? That said, let me metaphorically speculate on our origin and what we are. Remember, all words are, by definition, metaphors. Words are symbols that have no meaning without subjective interpretation. Metaphorically, make of this what you will. Ahem. There is God and only God, Alpha and Omega. In It is all Creation. It is It’s Will that Creation share All It Is. In this, God has no choice. Otherwise, It simply wouldn’t be Itself. Thus we, by metaphorical definition, are It Yet, there are many doubters (blasphemers) among us. Well-meaning, yet occasionally mean-spirited, we walk a seeming path thru a myriad of happenstance, some happy and some not so. We spend our days planning our futures based on a past we call our anthropical legacy. Good luck. The seeming obstacle to honest seekers of truth is … Want to hear more, comment. I am not beyond encouragement. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/214 "2013-09-10T23:45:18Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > But apparently not as “short” as your own memory appears to be - post #124. > Any serious attempt at “follow-up” after an addmission like that would be a 'fool’s errand. And just how is that insincere? You might have to take up the fool’s errand with Paul. Let me refresh your memory as well of what I said in that post, and with what you followed with. I said in that post I have no desire to be a believer in “any faith system, whatsoever" and can’t find any compelling reason to do so, and a hell of a lot of reasons not to. Stay with me now….You stated you don’t even have a mustard seed of faith, but if you did, you’d be able to cast a mountain into the sea. When I asked you if your religion used any logic whatsoever, you replied in post # 183, that it depended on whose logic I was referring too. Now this I would be interested in, and since you state you don’t even have a mustard seed of faith, this got my attention. But how many times were you asked about this logic system, and each time you went crawfishing instead? ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/215 "2013-09-11T00:22:54Z")
> [@simster](#): > > … > > Have a pleasant day… And to you. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/216 "2013-09-11T04:16:28Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > Since you ask. > > For context, the OP. > > Just musing now. > > Anyone with half a brain has asked, who/what am I? Philosophical millennia of pondering the subject has but returned the question, who’s asking? lol. > > The obvious answer is, me. So, who/what me be? > > That said, let me metaphorically speculate on our origin and what we are. Remember, all words are, by definition, metaphors. Words are symbols that have no meaning without subjective interpretation. Metaphorically, make of this what you will. Ahem. > > There is God and only God, Alpha and Omega. In It is all Creation. It is It’s Will that Creation share All It Is. In this, God has no choice. Otherwise, It simply wouldn’t be Itself. Thus we, by metaphorical definition, are It > > Yet, there are many doubters (blasphemers) among us. Well-meaning, yet occasionally mean-spirited, we walk a seeming path thru a myriad of happenstance, some happy and some not so. We spend our days planning our futures based on a past we call our anthropical legacy. Good luck. > > The seeming obstacle to honest seekers of truth is … > > Want to hear more, comment. I am not beyond encouragement. > > Aloha I’m not sure if you’re saying ‘everything is god’ or ‘everyone is god’ or ‘you (you, jsutter) is god’ or what… If ‘everything’ or ‘everyone’ is a ‘god’ - then there is nothing unique/specail/descriptive about your ‘god’ that makes it stand out as believable… In the immortal words of [QUOTE=Syndrome] Oh, I’m real. Real enough to defeat you! And I did it without your precious gifts, your oh-so-special powers. I’ll give them heroics. I’ll give them the most spectacular heroics the world has ever seen! And when I’m old and I’ve had my fun, I’ll sell my inventions so that _everyone_ can have powers. _Everyone_ can be super! And when everyone’s super… [chuckles evilly] - no one will be. [/QUOTE] so, since its incomprehensible, and you leave a cliffhanger - you’re not very convincing at all. If you stuck with your earlier stance (christian gnosticism, for whatever that is) - it made more sense - but still isn’t something that is very convincing since its a mish mash of various beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/217 "2013-09-11T04:38:02Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > NT - Romans 2:1. That verse doesn’t say what you said. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/218 "2013-09-11T10:35:00Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > Just musing now. Don’t muse. Nobody asked you to muse. You were asked to address the OP. > [@jsutter](#): > > Anyone with half a brain has asked, who/what am I? Philosophical millennia of pondering the subject has but returned the question, who’s asking? lol. > > The obvious answer is, me. So, who/what me be? Really? So [all these people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_philosophers) have been wasting their time when the “obvious answer is, me”. Thank you Professor **jsutter** for the enlightenment. > [@jsutter](#): > > That said, let me metaphorically speculate on our origin and what we are. So you really have no intention of addressing the OP, do you? > [@jsutter](#): > > Remember, all words are, by definition, metaphors. Words are symbols that have no meaning without subjective interpretation. Metaphorically, make of this what you will. Ahem. No. Words definitely have meaning. I can look them up in different dictionaries and they all pretty much have the same definition. Where we get into trouble is when people decide they are far too clever to be constrained by the generally agreed upon meaning of words and language. As a result, we get is this… > [@jsutter](#): > > There is God and only God, Alpha and Omega. In It is all Creation. It is It’s Will that Creation share All It Is. In this, God has no choice. Otherwise, It simply wouldn’t be Itself. Thus we, by metaphorical definition, are It > Yet, there are many doubters (blasphemers) among us. Well-meaning, yet occasionally mean-spirited, we walk a seeming path thru a myriad of happenstance, some happy and some not so. We spend our days planning our futures based on a past we call our anthropical legacy. QED. p.s. It’s “myriad happenstance” not “a myriad of”, never “a myriad of” anything. Look it up in a dictionary. > [@jsutter](#): > > Good luck. We don’t need luck. We need whatever it is you’ve been inhaling to even hope to understand this. > [@jsutter](#): > > The seeming obstacle to honest seekers of truth is … > > Want to hear more, comment. I am not beyond encouragement. Please, no. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/219 "2013-09-11T11:46:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > p.s. It’s “myriad happenstance” not “a myriad of”, never “a myriad of” anything. Look it up in a dictionary. Nitpick. A myriad is a Persian military unit of 10.000 men. So ‘a myriad of Hyrkanian spearbearers’ is perfectly possible. See? Told you to never say never. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/220 "2013-09-11T12:04:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > p.s. It’s “myriad happenstance” not “a myriad of”, never “a myriad of” anything. Look it up in a dictionary. Such as the [Merriam-Webster on-line dictionary](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/myriad)? > [@](#): > > Usage Discussion of MYRIAD > > Recent criticism of the use of _myriad_ as a noun, both in the plural form _myriads_ and in the phrase a _myriad of_, seems to reflect a mistaken belief that the word was originally and is still properly only an adjective. As the entries here show, however, the noun is in fact the older form, dating to the 16th century. The noun _myriad_ has appeared in the works of such writers as Milton (plural _myriads_) and Thoreau (a _myriad of_), and it continues to occur frequently in reputable English. There is no reason to avoid it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033.md?page=12)