# Convince me I should believe in your god **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033 "2013-08-24T04:47:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/101 "2013-08-30T20:44:13Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Not sure what you’re driving at there - but if he came to preach to all (which includes the skeptics) and he responded to them ‘in kind’ (which I assume means he tailored his message to them as needed) - then seems he would have been able to provide ample evidence for the skeptics… > > oh, wait - when asked - he DID - to Thomas - direct PHYSICAL evidence. > > So - seems he can, if he wants, provide any evidence as required. > > Seems he just doesnt want to. > > Or he doesn’t actually exist - and the words in the ‘bible’ are just those needed to sell a religion. > > So - got anything external to the ‘bible’? Well, here’s your conundrum ; the “external” only comes to those who are receptive to the 'internal" so as to strengthen the seed of Faith. So, I wouldn’t wait around for someone to come tap you on the shoulder and perform signs and wonders exclusively for you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/102 "2013-08-30T20:46:23Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Well, here’s your conundrum ; the “external” only comes to those who are receptive to the 'internal" so as to strengthen the seed of Faith. > So, I wouldn’t wait around for someone to come tap you on the shoulder and perform signs and wonders exclusively for you. So why should I try this process with your god instead of any of the other gods or goddesses out there? After all, consider the title of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/103 "2013-08-30T20:59:53Z")
[quote=“QuickSilver, post:99, topic:667033”] The world is full of skeptics but not in numbers anywhere near those of the true believers. Trouble is, they believe so many contradictory things and each one is convinced that they have it right. Surely they can’t all be right. A remnant of those would likely “be right.” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/104 "2013-08-30T21:01:37Z")
> [@For You](#): > > I invite any and all believers to put forth compelling reasons for me to believe in god. I am a hard case, but I will not be combative (just annoyingly passive-aggressive with my questions). Believe in doing good, for its own sake. And do it, as best as you can. You will then be following my God. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/105 "2013-08-30T21:07:37Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Believe in doing good, for its own sake. And do it, as best as you can. > > You will then be following my God. “good”? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/106 "2013-08-30T21:07:25Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Well, here’s your conundrum ; the “external” only comes to those who are receptive to the 'internal" so as to strengthen the seed of Faith. > So, I wouldn’t wait around for someone to come tap you on the shoulder and perform signs and wonders exclusively for you. And for those that already are receptive to it and believe? Do any signs and wonders come your way? I’m going to go out on a limb here, and say no. I feel like it’s a huge limb. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/107 "2013-08-30T21:11:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So why should I try this process with your god instead of any of the other gods or goddesses out there? After all, consider the title of this thread. “Try this process” may be good tact when technical or mechanical approaches are being tested, but it doesn’t work that way with God. In fact, it is He who finds us, not the other way around - “few are chosen” ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/108 "2013-08-30T21:18:54Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > And for those that already are receptive to it and believe? Do any signs and wonders come your way? I’m going to go out on a limb here, and say no. I feel like it’s a huge limb. Yes! In fact, I’m sure if you took the time and perused some of the testimonials on many genuine Christian sites, you hear about them by the hundreds. The real question to you would be; would you believe any of them? LOL. That no “limb” that the trunk of the tree:D ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/109 "2013-08-30T21:20:17Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > “Try this process” may be good tact when technical or mechanical approaches are being tested, but it doesn’t work that way with God. In fact, it is He who finds us, not the other way around - “few are chosen” Then why the hell should I follow your god if he does the choosing and few are chosen? I’ll tell you what-if he wants me, he knows where I live. In the meantime, why are you bothering to post in this thread if you don’t want to convince us to follow your god? Did you forget to read the title and/or the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/110 "2013-08-30T21:22:40Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Yes! In fact, I’m sure if you took the time and perused some of the testimonials on many genuine Christian sites, you hear about them by the hundreds. And how do we determine which anecdotes on which Christian sites are genuine? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/111 "2013-08-30T21:31:39Z")
> [@For You](#): > > “good”? Yes. If you want something more specific: you’re sapient, you’ll have to figure it out for yourself. It’s not easy and there’s no shortcuts. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/112 "2013-08-30T22:05:54Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Yes! In fact, I’m sure if you took the time and perused some of the testimonials on many genuine Christian sites, you hear about them by the hundreds. The real question to you would be; would you believe any of them? Why I’d believe them like I’d believe all of those testimonials of info-commercials. Conservian, meet Kevin Trudea. He has personal testimonials by the tens of thousands, and if that is all it takes, congratulations, once you buy into his books and special system, you will be a multi-millionaire just like him. > [@](#): > > LOL. That no “limb” that the trunk of the tree:D Glad you liked it, but you misunderstand. I’m only concerned with those that do believe now in regards to what special signs or wonders you and they have. Tell us what did it for you. The bible says there are many wolves in sheep’s clothing and that you should test to see if they are truly believers or just pretenders. Let me guess again, you don’t even bother, you just have to believe with the faith you were born into, and it just so happens to be the faith of your parents. If I’m wrong, at least I’m right a good percentage of the time, in that you generally inherit the same beliefs as your parents, which also depends on geography. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/113 "2013-08-31T00:55:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then why the hell should I follow your god if he does the choosing and few are chosen? I’ll tell you what-if he wants me, he knows where I live. In the meantime, why are you bothering to post in this thread if you don’t want to convince us to follow your god? Did you forget to read the title and/or the OP? You’re failing to grasp that my initial post was a response indirectly to the OP, only from a very different perspective. I merely posted scripture verses (to another poster) clearly stating that some people - especially skeptics putting out a challenge - have no genuine concern at all about becoming a ‘true believer.’ That, Czarcasm, was posted by me because I believe chasing such ‘challenges’ is a fool’s errand - one that can never be achieved. And that certainly appears to be the case so far, especially judging from the defensive posture you’ve been taking here. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/114 "2013-08-31T00:57:00Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > I feel like it’s a huge limb. That’s what SHE said! ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/115 "2013-08-31T01:02:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And how do we determine which anecdotes on which Christian sites are genuine? Knowledge of NT Scripture & Spiritual discernment. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/116 "2013-08-31T01:13:06Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Knowledge of NT Scripture & Spiritual discernment. So I would already have to be a believer to judge their worthiness, correct? That makes your advice to **razncain** absolutely useless. Are you getting the gist of this “circular reasoning” bit yet? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/117 "2013-08-31T01:18:53Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Knowledge of NT Scripture & Spiritual discernment. Since we obviously can’t do the “Spiritual Discernment” part just yet, why don’t you just give us the top four or five sites to check out? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/118 "2013-08-31T02:56:57Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > I merely posted scripture verses (to another poster) clearly stating that some people - especially skeptics putting out a challenge - have no genuine concern at all about becoming a ‘true believer.’ Tis true, I have no desire to become a believer or “true believer” if that makes a difference, in “any faith system” whatsoever. I cannot find a single compelling reason to do so, and just a hell of a lot good reasons not to. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/119 "2013-08-31T03:10:30Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > Tis true, I have no desire to become a believer or “true believer” if that makes a difference, in “any faith system” whatsoever. I cannot find a single compelling reason to do so, and just a hell of a lot good reasons not to. And besides, the challenge wasn’t to convince us to become a “true believer”. The challenge was to convince us to become a “true believer” in the deity _you_ follow, as opposed to all the other deities out there that have their wondrous claims and “true believers”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/120 "2013-08-31T05:13:00Z")
As I understand/remember it, “spiritual discernment” is a non-intellectual exercise. You have to _feel it in your heart_. You _just know_ that it is true. I mean, how else can you expect to _discern_ the difference between a miracle and a coincidence (other than the fact that they are only miracles if your faith is involved, other faiths just have coincidences). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033.md?page=7)