# Convince me I should believe in your god **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033 "2013-08-24T04:47:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/141 "2013-08-31T18:21:44Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Biblical doctrine - man is a triune being - body,soul and spirit. We can agree on body. What is the difference between the soul and the spirit and where are they located? What evidence is there for their existance? I appreciate that “staying the course” in what you believe has certain romantically intrepid imagery. But what if you’re wrong in what you believe? God would be okay with you believing the wrong thing as long as your belief is unwavering? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/142 "2013-08-31T18:37:17Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > > [@For You](#): > > > > “Heart of the spirit”? Before that can be addressed we need to understand “spirit” in objective terms. _Cogito ergo sum_ (apparently), but beyond that, what? IIUC, you believe that there is an entity that can/will exit your body intact, but how can you even substantively support this belief? Is there viable logic that leads to this spirit/soul business, or is it just a feeling (or wishful thinking)? > > Biblical doctrine - man is a triune being - body,soul and spirit. Biblical doctrine fails to address my question. Is there any substantive logic that supports the existence of either? On the basis of what do you infer that a soul and/or spirit exists? And what about non-humans? Do any animals possess one, the other or both, and why/why-not? (And what is this triune doctrine? I have never heard this before.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/143 "2013-08-31T18:43:52Z")
I thought the Triune Doctrine of the Bible was Father/Son/Holy Spirit. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/144 "2013-08-31T20:09:58Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > You said a lot here, and in a variety of directions. So, I’ll just say If you believe its “99% spiritual bull” then it shouldn’t matter what I say or think or how the “original followers” coped. Convince me otherwise - ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/145 "2013-09-01T14:34:25Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > “Try this process” may be good tact when technical or mechanical approaches are being tested, but it doesn’t work that way with God. In fact, it is He who finds us, not the other way around - “few are chosen” What happens to many that are not chosen? ---
**Author:** ![Longshanks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Longshanks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Longshanks)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/146 "2013-09-01T15:48:29Z")
Join the Imperial Cult and worship the one and only true god, The Emperor Of Mankind. Otherwise the inquisition will burn you for a heretic. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/147 "2013-09-01T16:14:49Z")
> [@Longshanks](#): > > Join the Imperial Cult and worship the one and only true god, The Emperor Of Mankind. Otherwise the inquisition will burn you for a heretic. Myself, I’m kind of partial to Bob and the Church of SubGenius that **Brain Glutton** linked up to in post #21, however, I also belong to the [Cult of Dusty.](http://www.cultofdusty.com/) Lots of good funny rants to watch, just recently enjoyed watching Kirk Cameron vs Stephen Hawking. Look for “Atheism gets destroyed” on his site or youtube. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/148 "2013-09-02T02:40:12Z")
[quote=“Czarcasm, post:140, topic:667033”] > [@Conservian](#): > > Circular reasoning again. Why should whatever version of the Bible you follow be acceptable as an authoritative cite for someone who does not first believe that it is acceptable as an authoritative cite? I think you’ve demonstrated here that it wouldn’t be “acceptable” to the skeptic, which, again, is what I said from the onset. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > We can agree on body. What is the difference between the soul and the spirit and where are they located? What evidence is there for their existance? > I appreciate that “staying the course” in what you believe has certain romantically intrepid imagery. But what if you’re wrong in what you believe? God would be okay with you believing the wrong thing as long as your belief is unwavering? It’s an enigma to me, but I accept it by Faith. > [@For You](#): > > Biblical doctrine fails to address my question. Is there any substantive logic that supports the existence of either? On the basis of what do you infer that a soul and/or spirit exists? And what about non-humans? Do any animals possess one, the other or both, and why/why-not? > > (And what is this triune doctrine? I have never heard this before.) Biblical doctrine does address your question(s) but the answers will not be acceptable or satisfactory for you. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I thought the Triune Doctrine of the Bible was Father/Son/Holy Spirit. That’s correct, as it applies to the GodHead. As for man, his being consist of a - body, soul and spirit. > [@simster](#): > > Convince me otherwise - That’s beyond me, as I can’t change hearts. > [@Kable](#): > > What happens to many that are not chosen? Reference the NT on that. The subject is covered thoroughly in it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/149 "2013-09-02T02:43:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I thought the Triune Doctrine of the Bible was Father/Son/Holy Spirit. > [@Conservian](#): > > That’s correct, as it applies to the GodHead. > As for man, his being consist of a - body, soul and spirit. What Christian sect teaches this? I don’t think I’ve heard it before. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/150 "2013-09-02T02:49:31Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > That’s beyond me, as I can’t change hearts. So, you lack even a ‘mustard seed’ amount of faith… interesting. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/151 "2013-09-02T03:12:20Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Biblical doctrine does address your question(s) but the answers will not be acceptable or satisfactory for you. Where? As far as I can see, biblical doctrine says the thing about the clay and breathing a soul into it. What else? It says that there is a soul in each person, so that is it? We just _know_? Because, you see, the soul thing is pretty compelling, and unquestionably appealing. No one wants to die, so having a thing persist beyond the end our physical existence is very attractive – and entirely without merit (that I can see). What is the argument or evidence for this soul thing, apart from raw positivism? Why should I believe it is a real thing? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/152 "2013-09-02T04:12:39Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > I think you’ve demonstrated here that it wouldn’t be “acceptable” to the skeptic, which, again, is what I said from the onset. > [@Conservian](#): > > Biblical doctrine does address your question(s) but the answers will not be acceptable or satisfactory for you. > [@Conservian](#): > > That’s beyond me, as I can’t change hearts. I think I get it-We’re too stupid to understand that _obviously_ the Bible is the only Holy Book out there, and if we just forget everything we know about science and history and accept it at face value God may pick us. Also, other religions aren’t even worth considering, so why bother talking about them at all. There is obviously only _one_ God to even consider. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/153 "2013-09-02T05:47:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What Christian sect teaches this? I don’t think I’ve heard it before. Any Church that abides by NT doctrine acknowledges it. > [@simster](#): > > So, you lack even a ‘mustard seed’ amount of faith… interesting. If I had Faith the size of a mustard seed, I’d be able to cast a mountain into the sea. Certainly haven’t done that yet. And besides, you seem to confusing faith with authority. Only God can change hearts and minds. Man can merely serve as the instrument by which that occurs. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/154 "2013-09-02T05:58:59Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Any Church that abides by NT doctrine acknowledges it. Hand waving. Name a few sects that follow this doctrine of Triune =body, soul and spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/155 "2013-09-02T06:08:58Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Any Church that abides by NT doctrine acknowledges it. What is this Christian-wide NT doctrine thingy of which you speak? > [@](#): > > If I had Faith the size of a mustard seed, I’d be able to cast a mountain into the sea. Certainly haven’t done that yet. > And besides, you seem to confusing faith with authority. Only God can change hearts and minds. Man can merely serve as the instrument by which that occurs. He’d better pick another instrument then, this one isn’t working too well. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/156 "2013-09-02T06:32:19Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Where? As far as I can see, biblical doctrine says the thing about the clay and breathing a soul into it. What else? It says that there is a soul in each person, so that is it? We just _know_? > > Because, you see, the soul thing is pretty compelling, and unquestionably appealing. No one wants to die, so having a thing persist beyond the end our physical existence is very attractive – and entirely without merit (that I can see). What is the argument or evidence for this soul thing, apart from raw positivism? Why should I believe it is a real thing? Everyone wants to believe they are immortal. But no one wants to believe in a judgment that will have lasting consequences - eternal bliss or torment - once the mortal coil is shed and immortality begins. If you need to see something to believe its real, then you will forever feel estranged from the God of the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/157 "2013-09-02T06:34:14Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Everyone wants to believe they are immortal. But no one wants to believe in a judgment that will have lasting consequences - eternal bliss or torment - once the mortal coil is shed and immortality begins. > If you need to see something to believe its real, then you will forever feel estranged from the God of the Bible. Got it. You have no interest in convincing us to believe in your god rather than any others. Next? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/158 "2013-09-02T06:40:26Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Everyone wants to believe they are immortal. But no one wants to believe in a judgment that will have lasting consequences - eternal bliss or torment - once the mortal coil is shed and immortality begins. > If you need to see something to believe its real, then you will forever feel estranged from the God of the Bible. Now you are starting to get annoying. Did I ask to “see” anything? No, I asked for some logical argument or substantive evidence to support the idea that this “soul” is real. Something more than, “because; I mean, can’t you feel it, man?” If all you have to offer are your intellectually bankrupt “you’re not good enough” platitudes, why should we even bother reading what you post? ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/159 "2013-09-02T06:49:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Hand waving. Name a few sects that follow this doctrine of Triune =body, soul and spirit. Many of the Protestant sects probably subscribe to the belief that man is a threefold being - body, soul and spirit. If you really want to get a general idea, Google it and let us know what you find. > [@Latro](#): > > What is this Christian-wide NT doctrine thingy of which you speak? > > He’d better pick another instrument then, this one isn’t working too well. Google - bible commentary on body, soul and spirit, or something along those lines. That should give you an idea. It’s working out exactly as it was supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033/160 "2013-09-02T07:16:42Z")
[quote=“Conservian, post:148, topic:667033”] > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Reference the NT on that. The subject is covered thoroughly in it. In your words please. What happens to the many that are not God’s chosen? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-i-should-believe-in-your-god/667033.md?page=9)