# Convince me not to convert to Islam. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133 "2008-12-07T15:14:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/321 "2008-12-16T12:11:59Z")
I also feel that if people are going to follow a religion, they should follow it all the way. I cant stand these “Cafeteria Christians” who don’t want women who are perfect strangers to have abortions, but STEALING, well, that’s different, thats BUSINESS! [For](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Karcher#Political_activities) [example.](http://www.nndb.com/people/691/000025616/) ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/322 "2008-12-16T12:20:55Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > The shoe thrower is now a big hero in that part of the world. In what way is shoe throwing connected to Islam pray tell? As opposed to, oh say, Iraqi nationalism? ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/323 "2008-12-16T12:36:14Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > In what way is shoe throwing connected to Islam pray tell? As opposed to, oh say, Iraqi nationalism? It has a lot of symbolism. And of all the things. I could also mention the folks flooding the streets in jubilation after 9/11, in cities throughout the Arab world. Look, reading back through, it sounds like the OP is pretty far into it. At this point, I don’t see him backing out. One area where Islam is like Scientology, though, is they downplay some of the more hardcore aspects of it during the recruitment phase. In Scientology, they don’t tell you about Xenu for a long time. Similarly, if certain Suras give the prospective convert pause, they are downplayed or they will be told a different interpretation. Those verses will be brought up later in the indoctrination process, though. I just hope his girlfriend is on board, and can deal with his conversion, and is well informed of everything that it implies, because that is one issue I see as unresolved. Even a loose interpretation of what it means to be Islamic says his living arrangement is verboten. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/324 "2008-12-16T12:37:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > God allowed the rules that the devil (fallen angel) enacted via the Koran, but that does not make it the Word of God, but the word of Satan. The Word of God was the standard that God requires man to live up to to be worthy of eternal life, something no man can do. It is the Word of God because it is the standard that Jesus Himself had to live up to. Jesus did not have to live up to the rules of the Koran or any other standard of Satan, as He was above that, but He had only one standard to live up to, the standard set by God Himself., enacted through angels through a mediator. > > Yes, God did give the Commandments to Moses (Historians can look in Exodus, and several other books to find Moses, perhaps you can pass this note to them) > > Funny how when it comes to things like this the Israelites were just a bunch of uneducated people, in other instances they were highly skilled builders in Egypt, in other instances they were very skilled survivalists to survive in the desert in such a large group, and they were experts in military tactics. Historians will say anything and contradict themselves, no matter how impractical as not to give credit to God. When one considers the crime and the cost to all people the last 7 commandments are just common sense. If I do not steal from you and you do not steal from me etc. it will be a better world and Buddah’s 500 B.C. Golden rule"Do unto others as you want others to do unto you" Monavis [/QUOTE] You may say it’s common sense but that’s from our modernday society, would it be comon sense if theift was not though of as bad, even a profession. Re: Buddah, if that saying was common sense why did it require Buddah to reveal it? Is it comman sense to drive on the right side of the road, pass on the left, or does it just seem like it because that’s what we are used to being considered common sense. [/QUOTE] In case you haven’t noticed Exodus is not a historical book and no Historian would judge it as such. The Books of the Bible like all books are the work of man, that can be proven. So your argument is a circular one. There is no proof of "A’ God just faith that there is, and hope that there is, so that is one; that is the reason there are so many different religions, you just happen to believe in yours as all people believe in theirs. Our life experiences, our desires, etc., what we were taught or read are our reason’s to believe or not. Your religion suits you, but it would not suit many others. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/325 "2008-12-16T12:50:48Z")
As a post script: Archeologists have found no evidence of any large group living in the desert, They have found evidence of small groups of people that lived there thousands of years ago, and why any one would stay in a desert for as long as the Isrealite’s were said to have lived there would be folly, because the desert isn’t that large that they could have left it and went to another area much sooner. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/326 "2008-12-16T13:41:48Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > It has a lot of symbolism. > > And of all the things. I could also mention the folks flooding the streets in jubilation after 9/11, in cities throughout the Arab world. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/327 "2008-12-16T14:07:49Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Cite? No problem. [Video.](http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ClipMediaID=233961&ak=null) ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/328 "2008-12-16T14:30:44Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > No problem. > > [Video.](http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ClipMediaID=233961&ak=null) Doesn’t work. File corrupted. Maybe someone else can confirm it contains the following: Streets flooded; Multiple cities involved; Is not the fake one showing Palestinians celebrating something else. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/329 "2008-12-16T14:51:02Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > No problem. > > [Video.](http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ClipMediaID=233961&ak=null) Don’t get me wrong - I think Islam is by its theological and historical nature a violent expansionist ideology and it’s those who think it is a religion of peace who are distorting it. I just don’t think that reactions to 9/11 prove anything one way or the other. Particularly as there was an outpouring of support and sympathy for the USA across the Islamic world. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/330 "2008-12-16T14:51:03Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Doesn’t work. File corrupted. Maybe someone else can confirm it contains the following: > > Streets flooded; > Multiple cities involved; > Is not the fake one showing Palestinians celebrating something else. I only had time to watch the beginning where it clearly said, some in the Arab world condemned the attack and some celebrated. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/331 "2008-12-16T14:58:12Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > I am not sure where the insult is. I raised the possibility that the OP might be a troll, and questioned his piety. HE is the one talking about being a hit with the ladies, and how I am probably a pasty faced nerd with no “game”. What’s next? Bragging about the awesome kegger he had with his pals last weekend, praise Allah! Back off, now. All accusations of trolling are forbidden on the SDMB outside of the BBQ Pit. The rest of your post, “questioning his piety” is a pretty direct insult, regardless what spin you would disingenuously give it. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/332 "2008-12-16T15:02:00Z")
That said, I will note that an earlier post of mine was apparently swallowed by the board: > [@blinkthrice](#): > > Right, because I’m sure a guy named “Stan” gets all the chicks. > > You must be some sort of clown, or too lazy to read the thread and notice where I mentioned that I live with my girlfriend. Prior to “settling down” a bit, if you must know, I’ve never had a problem in that area. > > And with all due respect, the most adamant of atheists that I’ve come across are insecure geeks with bad skin, zero game, and terrible attitudes. Me thinks you’ve got it a little backwards. You will not call other posters clowns or suggest that they are unable to “get chicks.” Stick to the discussion and leave the personal shots for the BBQ Pit. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/333 "2008-12-16T15:04:40Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I only had time to watch the beginning where it clearly said, some in the Arab world condemned the attack and some celebrated. As I figured. Besides, we can contrast any celebrations with the lack of any popular mass protest against our own savagery in Iraq and Afghanistan. The way no one gives a flying fornication when yet another wedding party is blown to pieces. [I was still holding my grandson’s hand - the rest was gone](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/16/afghanistan-taliban-us-foreign-policy) > [@](#): > > It was 7.30 on a hot July morning when the plane came swooping low over the remote ravine. Below, a bridal party was making its way to the groom’s village in an area called Kamala, in the eastern province of Nangarhar, to prepare for the celebrations later that day. > > The first bomb hit a large group of children who had run on ahead of the main procession. It killed most of them instantly. > > A few minutes later, the plane returned and dropped another bomb, right in the centre of the group. This time the victims were almost all women. Somehow the bride and two girls survived but as they scrambled down the hillside, desperately trying to get away from the plane, a third bomb caught them. Hajj Khan was one of four elderly men escorting the bride’s party that day. > > “We were walking, I was holding my grandson’s hand, then there was a loud noise and everything went white. When I opened my eyes, everybody was screaming. I was lying metres from where I had been, I was still holding my grandson’s hand but the rest of him was gone. I looked around and saw pieces of bodies everywhere. I couldn’t make out which part was which.” > > Relatives from the groom’s village said it was impossible to identify the remains. They buried the 47 victims in 28 graves. > [@](#): > > The latest figures from the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, taken a month ago, suggest about 750 civilians have been killed by foreign forces this year. Most were killed in air strikes. The remainder were shot by jumpy soldiers, who often open fire in crowded public places after an attack on one of their convoys. > > Humanitarian aid agencies say privately that they believe the figure is significantly higher, as many victims classed as “insurgents” are actually non-combatants. > > As the situation deteriorates across the country, the killing of civilians is seen as a final affront in a litany of mistakes by the foreign forces in Afghanistan. Patience among ordinary Afghans has worn thin and anger grows with each attack. > > In July this year hundreds of Afghans took to the street in Nangarhar province after the air strike on the wedding party. The riots turned violent as protesters raged against the foreign occupiers and the government they support. The army eventually had to be called in to quell the rioting. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/334 "2008-12-16T17:37:58Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think it’s more that Christians as a group have got it made, so they don’t rock many boats. > > It’s not a difference in the religion. It’s a difference in the economics of the areas the religions happen to be centered in. Sub-Sahara Africa, South America, The Philippines, Eastern Europe. – not exactly top of the pops economic speaking. Whereas Arab oil nations and especially Saudi Arabia, the centre of Islam, is pretty damn rich. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/335 "2008-12-16T17:38:06Z")
**blinkthrice** , **Stan Shmenge** has a legitimate - if crudely phrased - question in [post 310](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10576500&postcount=310). You currently live with your girlfriend. Have you discussed your pending conversion with her? How does she feel about that? How does it fit in with her own beliefs? Is this a sexual relationship (I’m assuming that it is)? If you formally convert, how do you plan to accommodate this living arrangement with your new religious obligations? Will you marry, will you live separately (and chastely), or will you separate? In short, there is another person in your life and home, and you have an obligation to consider how your actions will affect that person. I’m not saying that you should not convert because you live with your girlfriend. However, you should articulate your expectations ahead of time so that you can both act appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/336 "2008-12-16T18:08:16Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > HE is the one talking about being a hit with the **ladies** Thanks to a certain Doper, the orthography of this word will forever be ruined for me :eek: ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/337 "2008-12-16T18:24:18Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Sub-Sahara Africa, South America, The Philippines, Eastern Europe. – not exactly top of the pops economic speaking. And they aren’t exactly “top of the pops” ethically-speaking either. Compare like to like rather than cherry-picking the countries that make Christianity look best by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/338 "2008-12-16T18:42:52Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > HE is the one talking about being a hit with the ladies, and how I am probably a pasty faced nerd with no “game”. What? That was a direct response to **you** claiming he needed to “get laid” and saying he probably didn’t have any “game” with the ladies. Did you think we didn’t notice that? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/339 "2008-12-16T18:57:16Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Sub-Sahara Africa, South America, The Philippines, Eastern Europe. – not exactly top of the pops economic speaking. Whereas Arab oil nations and especially Saudi Arabia, the centre of Islam, is pretty damn rich. However, the point to which you are purportedly responding was not the overall wealth of a nation, but the economics. Saudi Arabia is one of the foremost examples of a (corrupt) plutocracy in the world. In addition, the princes that run it are not particularly devout Muslims (which is how bin Laden got interested in being a rebel–they were not sufficiently devout for his tastes). When we factor in the rest of the MENA region and the relative GDPs found there, we discover that they are not all that wealthy. Even Saudi Arabia is [beaten out by more than 23 countries in the world](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)). If a country has great wealth, but that is held by a tiny percentage of the population, then it is quite likely that the rest of the impoverished people are going to be more likely to be easily agitated. ---
**Author:** ![starryspice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@starryspice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starryspice)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/340 "2008-12-16T19:22:35Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > As far as evolution is concerned, I don’t think there is a concerted movement of muslims who rail against the theory as passionately as some christians do - historically Islam hasn’t had that kind of sour relationship with science and learning, in fact quite the opposite. You are correct, historically, but historically doesn’t really matter. The fact is that at least for the last century, Islam has had quite the sour relationship with science. The teaching of the Quran replaces the teaching of science in many schools throughout the world. Look at how many Nobel Prize winners are Muslim - a grand total of 6! > [@blinkthrice](#): > > For the most part within its rise, Islam drastically improved the lives of the people within the territories it conquered, I don’t think that can really be debated. You mean Islam improved the lives of the men (if even that is to be believed.) Islam does not view women to be the equal of men. I know that Islam is not alone in the opinion - there are plenty of religions worldwide that also have issues with gender equality - but Islam sure does rival them all for its doctrine against women. I would think that knowledge of this would keep you from converting, but I don’t think you’re actually interested in anyone’s opinion anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133.md?page=18)