# Convince me not to convert to Islam. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133 "2008-12-07T15:14:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/361 "2008-12-17T17:51:16Z")
Obviously, it can be said without its intending to be an insult, but t most likely will be heard as such. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/362 "2008-12-17T18:21:22Z")
As long as we’re hijacking, let’s do it with cites! A Google search for “Arab Jew” turned up some interesting articles on the first page. [www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/arab\_jew.html](http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/arab_jew.html) is an article by an American academic who identifies as an Arab Jew. www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/021016\_arabjews.htmlis another article from the same source about Arab Jewish culture in New York City. www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/984385.htmldescribes controversy about the use of the term at an academic conference in Israel. www.forward.com/articles/12561/ responds to the first article listed above, arguing that the use of the term is inappropriate. In short, it appears that there are certainly people who do use the term to apply to themselves; these people are generally making a political statement in opposition to the privileged position of Ashkenazim in Israeli society and/or to Zionism itself. They would argue that the now-common idea that one cannot be both Arab and Jewish is a recent historical development stemming from the Arab-Israeli conflict. I would surmise, however, that as **Alessan’s** testimony would indicate, the people who do choose to use the term constitute a rather small percentage of the people who could reasonably do so. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/363 "2008-12-17T20:15:28Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > It’s make-believe. It never happened. The angel Gabriel never dictated anything to Muhammed. It’s as made up as any other religion, from Judaism to scientology. > > That, and that alone, is why you shouldn’t convert to Islam or any other religion. Thank you so much for your contribution to this thread. I’m sure it’ll have a great impact on all who read it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/364 "2008-12-18T00:47:49Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > Thank you so much for your contribution to this thread. I’m sure it’ll have a great impact on all who read it. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/365 "2008-12-18T03:31:16Z")
I say go ahead. Islam has always seemed the most sensible in terms of the clarity of its teachings of all the major religions to me. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/366 "2008-12-18T23:03:27Z")
Islam’s okay. Just don’t go nuts and move to an Islamic country. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/367 "2008-12-20T12:53:03Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > Thank you so much for your contribution to this thread. I’m sure it’ll have a great impact on all who read it. Just because he is right is no reason to be a hater! ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/368 "2008-12-20T13:01:49Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Does _she_ plan on raising your children as muslims? Seriously. Of course, we all know the enlightened way the Muslims treat their women. They are known for it! In many Islamic countries, they are so concerned for the safety and welfare of the women, they prevent them from DRIVING A CAR! I knew a Muslim once. He was here in the US because they were bribing some UCLA doctor for his uncle to get ahead on the transplant list. He had a daugter, a toddler actually, at the time. He would drink and smoke weed and whore it up big time. What was he worried about? Getting back to the Middle East, before his daughter got much older. Why? “All western women are whores, and I don’t want my daughter to be a prostitute. She needs to be raised in a place where she will not be allowed to be a whore. In Islam, we PROTECT our women!” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/369 "2008-12-20T16:01:35Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > “All western women are whores, and I don’t want my daughter to be a prostitute. She needs to be raised in a place where she will not be allowed to be a whore. In Islam, we PROTECT our women!” I wonder who you are trying to convince: the OP or yourself. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/370 "2008-12-21T13:29:06Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Seriously. Of course, we all know the enlightened way the Muslims treat their women. They are known for it! In many Islamic countries, they are so concerned for the safety and welfare of the women, they prevent them from DRIVING A CAR! > > I knew a Muslim once. He was here in the US because they were bribing some UCLA doctor for his uncle to get ahead on the transplant list. He had a daugter, a toddler actually, at the time. > > He would drink and smoke weed and whore it up big time. What was he worried about? Getting back to the Middle East, before his daughter got much older. > > Why? > > “All western women are whores, and I don’t want my daughter to be a prostitute. She needs to be raised in a place where she will not be allowed to be a whore. In Islam, we PROTECT our women!” NOt knowing any Muslims or any Islamic person I wonder what you are protecting them from? There may be a few western women who are Whores but the ones who are, are very, very, few. If a muslim man can’t see a woman except for her eyes,( and those who are made to wear Burkas) aren’t they just trying to protect them from Muslim men? I would think a Muslim man would be embarressed and insulted, that he wasn’t safe to be around a woman, but the other men had to protect her. Are they afraid that if a woman is educated they may not want to be Muslim? I just read that a Muslim woman had acid thrown in her face by a Muslim man because she refused to marry him. Who protected her? And why should it be unsafe for a woman to walk alone? Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/371 "2008-12-21T14:48:06Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > If a muslim man can’t see a woman except for her eyes,( and those who are made to wear Burkas) aren’t they just trying to protect them from Muslim men? I would think a Muslim man would be embarressed and insulted, that he wasn’t safe to be around a woman, but the other men had to protect her. Are they afraid that if a woman is educated they may not want to be Muslim? > > I just read that a Muslim woman had acid thrown in her face by a Muslim man because she refused to marry him. Who protected her? And why should it be unsafe for a woman to walk alone? This infantilizing of its own membership is a major flaw with Islam, I figure; a trait shared to various degrees by various flavours of Christianity as well. It might be tolerable among individual believers, but don’t ever let the religion take political power. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/372 "2008-12-21T20:33:49Z")
Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, and Joseph Smith didn’t know what religion they were supposed to belong to until God told them directly. So follow their great example, and wait for God to speak to you directly and unambiguously. Then write down what he said and tell everyone! ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/373 "2008-12-22T19:25:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I know a lot of people may have their own conceptions about what Islam is ie; long robes, big beards, veiled women, and ak-47’s, but that’s not how I see it, and definitely not how it should be seen. To “formally convert” to Islam isn’t something drastically elaborate - if you believe in One God, and his Messengers, then you are a Muslim, plain and simple. It is tradition to confess your faith in front of two witnesses, but not obligatory, though recommended. Whether joining a religion will make you a better or worse person depends not on which religion it is, but on what sort of _people_ you will be associating with in your new faith. Good and bad people can be found in every faith. Do you have many Muslim friends? What are they like? How do they feel about non-Muslims? What do they care about most in their society? What do they _not_ care about? What will you do if you find yourself disagreeing on a matter of faith with a fellow Muslim? This is an experience that is guaranteed to happen to anyone who joins any religion. It is very dangerous to associate with the wrong sort of people when you are in the process of converting to their faith or ideology. The brutal and fanatical, the people who love to crush and control, will try to surround new converts and use social pressure to mold them into fanatics–and it works. Read this article: [Azzam the American](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/01/22/070122fa_fact_khatchadourian) It’s the story of a harmless young man who was turned into a monster by this process of social indoctrination–which, I repeat, is in no way specific to Islam, but can happen to a new convert in any religion, and in many non-religious ideological groups. No matter how benevolent and wise its doctrines, if the group is large enough then there are bad people in it and _they want you_. ---
**Author:** ![blinkthrice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@blinkthrice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkthrice)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/374 "2008-12-24T02:44:58Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Whether joining a religion will make you a better or worse person depends not on which religion it is, but on what sort of _people_ you will be associating with in your new faith. Good and bad people can be found in every faith. > > Do you have many Muslim friends? What are they like? How do they feel about non-Muslims? What do they care about most in their society? What do they _not_ care about? > > What will you do if you find yourself disagreeing on a matter of faith with a fellow Muslim? This is an experience that is guaranteed to happen to anyone who joins any religion. > > It is very dangerous to associate with the wrong sort of people when you are in the process of converting to their faith or ideology. The brutal and fanatical, the people who love to crush and control, will try to surround new converts and use social pressure to mold them into fanatics–and it works. > > Read this article: > [Azzam the American](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/01/22/070122fa_fact_khatchadourian) > > It’s the story of a harmless young man who was turned into a monster by this process of social indoctrination–which, I repeat, is in no way specific to Islam, but can happen to a new convert in any religion, and in many non-religious ideological groups. No matter how benevolent and wise its doctrines, if the group is large enough then there are bad people in it and _they want you_. Some of you guys must live in the most secluded parts of the United States - the xenophobic vibe here is just massive, AS IF Muslims aren’t a significant portion of the American population…wow. I have many Muslim friends, and _gasp_ they do regular shit just like you do. How do YOU think they feel about non-Muslims? If you came to NYC and saw a fully veiled Muslim woman in Dunkin Donuts buying an iced coffee you’d probably have a heart attack, and thats pretty pathetic, honestly. LOL @ linking me to an article on Azzam the American. Please be serious. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/375 "2008-12-24T03:03:00Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > Some of you guys must live in the most secluded parts of the United States - the xenophobic vibe here is just massive, AS IF Muslims aren’t a significant portion of the American population…wow. > > I have many Muslim friends, and _gasp_ they do regular shit just like you do. How do YOU think they feel about non-Muslims? If you came to NYC and saw a fully veiled Muslim woman in Dunkin Donuts buying an iced coffee you’d probably have a heart attack, and thats pretty pathetic, honestly. > > LOL @ linking me to an article on Azzam the American. Please be serious. You’ve missed Tomba’s point in a spectacularly ignorant fashion. I take it you’re abandoning the pretense of seeking actual advice on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/376 "2008-12-24T13:11:40Z")
Read up on the Quran and the hadiths. If after that you can conclude that Muhammad is NOT a pedophile, a coward, a murderer and a rapist then please go on and convert. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/377 "2008-12-24T21:09:06Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > I have many Muslim friends, and _gasp_ they do regular shit just like you do. How do YOU think they feel about non-Muslims? I don’t know. They’re YOUR friends. My whole entire point was that it doesn’t matter what religion you join; it matters what sort of people you hang out with. > [@](#): > > If you came to NYC and saw a fully veiled Muslim woman in Dunkin Donuts buying an iced coffee you’d probably have a heart attack, and thats pretty pathetic, honestly. You don’t know where I live or what I’ve seen. > [@](#): > > LOL @ linking me to an article on Azzam the American. Please be serious. I am not about to try to convince you not to convert to Islam. I was just trying to give you the advice I think religious converts should hear. I took pains to point out that the lesson of that article has nothing specifically to do with Islam (in my opinion). I will not beat my points into your head. It’s a good article and if you don’t read it, you’re missing out. (It’s from the _New Yorker_, by the way, a publication not exactly known for xenophobia or parochialism.) Anyway, I didn’t insult you, so stuff the LOLs and sarcasm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133.md?page=18)