# Convince me not to convert to Islam. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133 "2008-12-07T15:14:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/21 "2008-12-07T16:50:44Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > Why would you want to do that? Besides, I dont think there is such a thing as an Islamic state today. Why I might choose to do it is irrelevant. The point being that if I did it, I would be offered violence and/or charged with crime. And you may want to google “Iran”. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/22 "2008-12-07T16:53:16Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Except of course for the creation itself. > > There is no direct evidence for dark matter. Lots of people seem to believe in it. > > I have no direct evidence for a place called “China,” but I believe in it. Faith is (as Thomas said) “belief in things not seen.” This is the main point of confusion in all the theism vs. non-theism threads. Belief that something exists is not the same as faith. It’s possible that through scientific observation, the existence of dark matter could be confirmed. It’s possible through booking a plane ticket on a travel website that China’s existence could be confirmed for you. Short of God or any gods appearing to all of humankind, it’s not possible to prove their existence through scientific observation. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/23 "2008-12-07T17:01:34Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Except of course for the creation itself. > > There is no direct evidence for dark matter. Lots of people seem to believe in it. > > I have no direct evidence for a place called “China,” but I believe in it. Faith is (as Thomas said) “belief in things not seen.” Nonsense; that’s a child’s argument. There’s plenty of evidence for the existence of both dark matter and China. > [@blinkthrice](#): > > To me Islam is first and foremost about recognizing that there is one ultimate source for everything that exists, and that is God. So, what’s the source for God? Anyway, if you choose to believe that there’s some sort of sentient, omnipotent creator of the universe, fine, but why also saddle yourself with the folderol, claptrap and repressive social rules of an organized religion? Do you literally believe that angels exist? Are you looking forward to praying five times a day because some guy said so fifteen hundred years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/24 "2008-12-07T17:02:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Islam says put the infidel to the sword. I’m an infidel. I own guns. You do the math. > [@blinkthrice](#): > > Do you really believe that? The problem is not whether or not **Oaky** believes this. The problem is that there are quite a few Muslims that believe it, and are trying to put non believers to the sword. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Yup. What do you think would happen to me if I were to walk around in an Islamic state wearing a sign that reads “I’m an atheist” or “There is no god”? > [@blinkthrice](#): > > Why would you want to do that? Besides, I dont think there is such a thing as an Islamic state today. First off we call it freedom of speech, and while I may not agree with what someone has to say, I will defend their right to say it. Secondly, you are joking about no Islamic state, right? **cough** Iran **cough** ---
**Author:** ![blinkthrice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@blinkthrice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkthrice)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/25 "2008-12-07T17:02:59Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Why I might choose to do it is irrelevant. The point being that if I did it, I would be offered violence and/or charged with crime. And you may want to google “Iran”. You might reasonably expect to be met with some kind of push-back or resistance, but it wouldn’t necessarily have to be violent in nature - Just as if I decided to stroll through harlem with a sign that read “I agree with the KKK.” Iran considers themselves an Islamic state, but they are Shi’ites who have their own beliefs and practices which differ from mainstream muslim orthodoxy. Anyway, the point is that it doesn’t matter what you are considered to be according to Islam, it’s that you dont really have anyything to fear about muslims as far as them imposing their way of life upon you against your will, rather, the opposite seems to be more akin to reality than anything. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/26 "2008-12-07T17:09:41Z")
What type of arguments could convince you that Islam does not reflect truth, **blinkthrice**? Would scientific inaccuracies in the Quran suffice? Evidence that Allah or Muhammad is/was unjust? Anything at all? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/27 "2008-12-07T17:09:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Convince me not to convert to Islam. No. Don’t care. But I enjoyed this particular bit of irony: > [@](#): > > Any religion or doctrine that advocates a philosophy of absolute non-violence, even in the most dire of situations, I consider to be un-realistic, and dangerously idealist. Thanks for the laugh. Your standard is realistic and not dangerously idealistic yet you want to convert to a religion… ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/28 "2008-12-07T17:10:04Z")
Is Allah the god you want? Is His demands on humanity reasonable? Have you read through the Koran to find out for yourself what is really in there, or are you just taking men’s word for what is there? I don’t pretend to know the in’s and out’s of Islam, but compare to what I do know: My own view of a follower of Jesus, I have found that there is a lot of man made rules, and a lot of work required by man that Jesus never intended for us. My own view of the condition of salvation that Jesus offers is admit that you can’t achieve salvation on your own, and you accept Jesus as God and Lord and His free gift of salvation and ask Him to come into your heart. This is the only thing Jesus requires us to do total and grants complete eternal security. This is the gospel which means the ‘good news’, it is really that simple. And just to complete the picture, all the rest comes as Jesus lives through us. Jesus really does empower us and lead our lives, so worship is because we want to, going to church is because we want to, proving people around us when we need them, helping others comes from a deep down Love for your fellow man. We don’t live the christian lifestyle in our own power, God never intended us to, and we really can not. ---
**Author:** ![blinkthrice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@blinkthrice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkthrice)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/29 "2008-12-07T17:10:57Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > Nonsense; that’s a child’s argument. There’s plenty of evidence for the existence of both dark matter and China. > > So, what’s the source for God? Anyway, if you choose to believe that there’s some sort of sentient, omnipotent creator of the universe, fine, but why also saddle yourself with the folderol, claptrap and repressive social rules of an organized religion? Do you literally believe that angels exist? Are you looking forward to praying five times a day because some guy said so fifteen hundred years ago? I log onto the internet well over 5 times a day, so if dedicating 15-20 minutes of my day to prayer brings me peace and tranquility, I don’t necessarily see that as an inconvenience. You might consider the rules laid out by Islam to be repressive, and that’s fine, but that’s also the reason why you aren’t a Muslim. That’s fine as well. As for God, if I believed that God had a beginning, I wouldn’t consider that “God” to be worthy of worship, or to be God at all for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/30 "2008-12-07T17:13:12Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I personally think it is more rational to believe that God chatted with Muhammed and told him to write a book about it, than to believe that Jesus was God incarnated in human flesh. Really? What attributes do you attribute to God that make the one more likely than the other? ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/31 "2008-12-07T17:14:29Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > Iran considers themselves an Islamic state, but they are Shi’ites who have their own beliefs and practices which differ from mainstream muslim orthodoxy. “No true Muslim. . . .” **kanicbird** has inadvertently made a point. If you simply must have nonrational belief in your life, there are thousands of religions to choose from. Keep shopping for a while before you buy. ETA: And answer the other questions. Do you literally believe in angels? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/32 "2008-12-07T17:19:26Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > Anyway, the point is that it doesn’t matter what you are considered to be according to Islam, it’s that you dont really have anyything to fear about muslims as far as them imposing their way of life upon you against your will, rather, the opposite seems to be more akin to reality than anything. Oh really? I don’t think it was atheists that launched worldwide protests over a bunch of cartoons… [Cite](http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/eimak/danish_cartoon_protest.jpg) [Another Cite](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4684652.stm) [And another](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/03/cartoon.controversy/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/33 "2008-12-07T17:24:01Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > If you simply must have nonrational belief in your life, there are thousands of religions to choose from. Keep shopping for a while before you buy. Or he could just keep the one he already has. He could call it “Blinkthricism”. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/34 "2008-12-07T17:25:19Z")
> [@glee](#): > > There’s no evidence for this belief. No evidence that you accept is not the same as no evidence, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/35 "2008-12-07T17:38:28Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > I could never come to grips with the doctrine of the trinity or a three-in-one God, just as I could never come to grips with seeing my reasonably educated family members giving food, money, and flowers to statues and idols. Well, considering you’re going to have to be circumcised anyhow, what’s so wrong with being Jewish? Much better food, dancing, funny hats… secretly control the world… Nothing against converting to Islam, if it works for you, it works for you. You lose bacon either way, though. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/36 "2008-12-07T17:38:58Z")
I’m Catholic myself, but I have a close friend who is Hindu. He took me with him to temple a few years ago and I had a rewarding discussion with the Pujari there. I assume you went to the private Catholic schools for the education, but do you think that level of exposure to a different faith led you to the realization that ones personal faith is a matter of choice or opinion, rather than adhering to family tradition etc. You mention your family as devout Hindu. How do you think will your conversion effect your relationship with them? ---
**Author:** ![blinkthrice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@blinkthrice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkthrice)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/37 "2008-12-07T17:41:53Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Oh really? I don’t think it was atheists that launched worldwide protests over a bunch of cartoons… > > [Cite](http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/eimak/danish_cartoon_protest.jpg) > > [Another Cite](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4684652.stm) > > [And another](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/03/cartoon.controversy/index.html) But does that amount to imposing their beliefs on you? I don’t think it does. I see that whole ordeal as an outburst on the part of people who feel that their way of life is under attack, along with their identities as muslims - you may disagree with that, but that doesn’t take take away from the fact that they DO feel that way. I’m completely aware of the fiasco involving those cartoons, and it’s not in my interest to rationalize that kind of behavior just because we may happen to share the same religion. I personally don’t see the benefit of Muslims who are willingly living in another country to expect that country to bend and submit to their every whim and desire - that is wholly unreasonable, and to be quite frank, goes against the spirit of Islam itself. The Qur’an prescribes a way to deal with these situations quite clearly: \*He hath already revealed unto you in the Scripture that, when ye hear the revelations of Allah rejected and derided, (ye) sit not with them (who disbelieve and mock) until they engage in some other conversation. Lo! in that case (if ye stayed) ye would be like unto them. Lo! Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers, all together, into hell; \* 4:140 It doesn’t say to kill people who insult Islam, or to riot, it simply says to ignore them. Makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/38 "2008-12-07T17:45:51Z")
I humbly suggest you look into buddhism. I realize it’s not a theistic religion (it takes no position on the existence of God, or the origin of the universe) but it’s great in being non-dogmatic and allowing disagrement and free thought. The Buddha himself said not to take his word on anything just because he said it, instead examine his teachings for yourself and see if they are wise. Karma seems completely fair, at least in comparison with an eternal hell or heaven. An infinite reward or punishment is, in my view, infinitely unjust. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/39 "2008-12-07T17:46:50Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > Well, I see warfare as an ugly necessity in certain instances, as unpleasant as it may be. Any religion or doctrine that advocates a philosophy of absolute non-violence, even in the most dire of situations, I consider to be un-realistic, and dangerously idealist. Warfare is a crime against mankind. It is about money . As long as you can accept it ,it will happen. Let’s evolve a little. ---
**Author:** ![blinkthrice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@blinkthrice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkthrice)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/40 "2008-12-07T17:47:02Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Well, considering you’re going to have to be circumcised anyhow, what’s so wrong with being Jewish? Much better food, dancing, funny hats… secretly control the world… > > Nothing against converting to Islam, if it works for you, it works for you. You lose bacon either way, though. LOL, believe it or not, I’m already circumcised, due to the perceived health benefits. As far as bacon is concerned, I eat meat, but since my mother and most of the family is 100% vegetarian, I never grew attached to any particular kind of meat…except perhaps chicken. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133.md?page=3)