# Convince me not to convert to Islam. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133 "2008-12-07T15:14:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/81 "2008-12-08T00:00:47Z")
> [@shallora](#): > > The silence among so-called “moderate” muslims (if there really are any) speaks volumes, to me. this is just flat-out false. i’ve heard plenty of denouncement of terrorist acts from muslims. if you want to hear them YOU need to seek them out because they don’t have television shows on Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![Skylark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/82 "2008-12-08T00:19:37Z")
Have you considered Sufism? The “tolerant Muslims”, heh. Undogmatic, non-violent, mystical and joyful. Known for very beautiful poetry. _There is a community of the spirit. Join it, and feel the delight of walking in the noisy street and being the noise. Drink all your passion, and be a disgrace. Close both eyes to see with the other eye._ -Rumi > [@Oakminster](#): > > The protesters called for the prosecution, conviction, and execution of the Danish cartoonists. Folks that live in non-islamic countries, that are not muslim, that were exercising free expression in a lawful manner. That’s advocating imposing islamic beliefs on others. There is no way to spin it otherwise. Those people are takfiris. You can’t reason with takfiri. > [@shallora](#): > > Top 5 Reasons to denounce Islam: > > 1. The '72 Munich Olympics > 2. 444 days of American hostages in Iran (1979-1980) > 3. PanAm - Lockerbie Scotland tragedy > 4. **9/11** > 5. Various beheadings, executions etc by Muslims of American captives, videotaped and sent to the West > > The reason you don’t hear from any “moderate” Muslims is that **there aren’t any**. Those who profess Islam but stay silent about the above incidents are as guilty as those whom acutally pulled the trigger. > > At least in other religions (priest sex scandal within Roman Catholicism, e.g.) there are those within those religions whom have been whistleblowers and have turned the criminal element in. > > The silence among so-called “moderate” muslims (if there really are any) speaks volumes, to me. > > Convince _ **me** _ otherwise. I don’t think you’ll ever allow yourself to be convinced otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/83 "2008-12-08T00:39:23Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > There are more than a billion Muslims out there and it would be very easy for anybody making this kind of statements to meet some of them, hear what they say, read what they write, and realize how horribly wrong they were (and apologize profusely as a result for having been such a dick). Immediately after 9/11 a local mosque in my area held an open-house. They answered questions put forth in writing by the attending quests. They did not choose my question so I waited until it was over to discuss it with the elders. I asked how they felt about the giant statues of Buddha that were destroyed in Afghanistan. I was told that Islam did not accept false idols so it was justified. If you wish to act indignant at the prejudices of the world do not presume that you live in a vacuum. The acts of terrorism committed around the world would suggest that not only is prejudice not a one way street, it is heavily traveled by Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/84 "2008-12-08T01:33:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Immediately after 9/11 a local mosque in my area held an open-house. They answered questions put forth in writing by the attending quests. They did not choose my question so I waited until it was over to discuss it with the elders. I asked how they felt about the giant statues of Buddha that were destroyed in Afghanistan. I was told that Islam did not accept false idols so it was justified. > > If you wish to act indignant at the prejudices of the world do not presume that you live in a vacuum. The acts of terrorism committed around the world would suggest that not only is prejudice not a one way street, it is heavily traveled by Muslims. And in a city in NZ I lived in local Christians destroyed statues of Bast and Anubis in a public garden. Smaller scale yes, but they felt they’d done the right thing ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/85 "2008-12-08T01:38:13Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Islam says put the infidel to the sword. No it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/86 "2008-12-08T01:40:36Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > In practice, what would happen if **blinkthrice** changes his mind later? After all, “[The four major Sunni and the one major Shia Madh’hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) agree that a sane adult male apostate must be executed.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam)” Does **blinkthrice** intend to remain in the West? You can’t be an apostate if you were never a Muslim. There are also very stringent conditions for what constitutes an apostate. It’s not enough just to leave the faith. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/87 "2008-12-08T01:42:00Z")
To the OP, do what feels right and fulfilling to you. In my opinion, the strongest arguemt against converting is the anti-Muslim bigotry you’d have to face from westerners. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/88 "2008-12-08T02:41:47Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > . . . as a result for having been such a dick). > > I assume this is going to get me my first warning in 7 or 8 years posting. But I couldn’t care less. I’m fed up with the clueless and hateful morons broadcasting their idiotic prejudices against Muslims in good conscience. Nah. I’m not handing out Warnings that easily. I will note that you appeared to be quite capable of expressing your thoughts without resroting to the name-calling, so you would be well advised to refrain from repeating that part of your post. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/89 "2008-12-08T03:38:37Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Interesting. What does the Koran say about God changing the names to Abraham and Sarah and if it happened before or after Ishmael was born/conceived? The Koran doesn’t say anything about that. It calls him Ibrahim throughout, and doesn’t mention her at all. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/90 "2008-12-08T03:45:05Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > When I went to India for the first time in 1998, and saw COWS being treated better than the poor and starving, that pretty much sealed the deal for me. I returned and just became content with calling myself an agnostic, though there were certain things I believed in without quite knowing how to classify those beliefs. I don’t really care what religion you choose, but please spare us your shallow characterizations of Hinduism. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/91 "2008-12-08T04:00:52Z")
> [@UnwrittenNocturne](#): > > And in a city in NZ I lived in local Christians destroyed statues of Bast and Anubis in a public garden. Smaller scale yes, but they felt they’d done the right thing I missed that. What Christian terrorist organization took credit for it? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/92 "2008-12-08T04:22:15Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Is Allah the god you want? Um, did I just misread this or does **kanicbird** think there are multiple Gods and we can pick between them? This seems to be a serious departure from the monotheism line we’ve heard so far. Good for you, K.B., glad to see you’re open to new, polytheistic ideas. In the meantime, I’m just gonna stand over here in case of lightning. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/93 "2008-12-08T04:28:43Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I don’t really care what religion you choose, but please spare us your shallow characterizations of Hinduism. What are you talking about? The OP told of his experience in India. If that counts as a shallow characterizations of Hinduism, why aren’t you calling for many in this thread to not post their shallow characterizations of Islam? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/94 "2008-12-08T04:32:01Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > What are you talking about? The OP told of his experience in India. If that counts as a shallow characterizations of Hinduism, why aren’t you calling for many in this thread to not post their shallow characterizations of Islam? I think **clairobscur** did exactly that in post #74 ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/95 "2008-12-08T04:38:03Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > I think **clairobscur** did exactly that in post #74 Not quite the same. **shallora** made the ridiculous claim that there aren’t any moderate Muslims. The OP wrote of about his observations of how cows got treated better than the poor and starving. If that counts as a shallow characterization of Hinduism, then plenty in this thread have done the same regarding Islam. Of course it was a silly charge by **BrightNShiny** in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/96 "2008-12-08T04:56:50Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > What are you talking about? The OP told of his experience in India. If that counts as a shallow characterizations of Hinduism, why aren’t you calling for many in this thread to not post their shallow characterizations of Islam? Some people in India probably do treat cows better than people. That has nothing to do with the fact that India has a lot of poor people due to disastrous colonial policies and subsequest post-Independence economic mismanagement. That has nothing to do with any mainstream Hindu philosophy of how people should be treated generally. The OP stated that he got turned off of the Hindu religion because he saw some people treating cows better than people. I’m quite sure he didn’t bother to visit the numerous Hindu charitable organizations that strive mightily to help poor people on a daily basis (several of which my family are heavily involved with). He has used his shallow observations of India to make a shallow characterization of Hinduism, and I’m calling him on it. As for defending Islam, while I’m not going to come in here and bash it, it’s not my job to defend it either. I’m not familiar enough with the ins-and-outs of Islamic doctrine to defend it against accusations, and there are already plenty of people in this thread defending it just fine. > [@](#): > > Not quite the same. shallora made the ridiculous claim that there aren’t any moderate Muslims. The OP wrote of about his observations of how cows got treated better than the poor and starving. If that counts as a shallow characterization of Hinduism, then plenty in this thread have done the same regarding Islam. Of course it was a silly charge by BrightNShiny in the first place. If you can’t see that the OP was making insulting generalizations, there’s nothing I can do for you. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/97 "2008-12-08T05:16:06Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > Why would you want to do that? Besides, I dont think there is such a thing as an Islamic state today. There are several Muslim majority states today. As a whole, they are not democratic and don’t treat their citizens or their neighbors well. If you are serious about learning what you are getting into, try reading _America Alone_, by Mark Steyn. He doesn’t get into the theology at all (nor will I) but he does an excellent job of summarizing what happens when a state becomes more than 50% Muslim. Also consider that the majority of wars in the world involve a Muslim participant. You are signing on to a lot of involvement in war for the rest of your life. Also, from one of your posts it sounds like you’re already contemptuous of Shiites. That’s how these things start. I’m an agnostic but I think I have more respect for the religion of the Shiites than you do. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/98 "2008-12-08T05:23:49Z")
> [@Plan\_B](#): > > There are several Muslim majority states today. As a whole, they are not democratic and don’t treat their citizens or their neighbors well. If you are serious about learning what you are getting into, try reading _America Alone_, by Mark Steyn. He doesn’t get into the theology at all (nor will I) but he does an excellent job of summarizing what happens when a state becomes more than 50% Muslim. > > Also consider that the majority of wars in the world involve a Muslim participant. You are signing on to a lot of involvement in war for the rest of your life. Also, from one of your posts it sounds like you’re already contemptuous of Shiites. That’s how these things start. I’m an agnostic but I think I have more respect for the religion of the Shiites than you do. The problem is theocracy, not Islam. Christian theocracies have taken a backseat to no one in oppression and terror. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/99 "2008-12-08T05:30:14Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > fuck it, I can’t run away from what I feel is the right thing to do. Well if that’s how you’re making your decisions then why are you posting on a message board where you will get responses that appeal to reason? The thread title uses the word _convince_. Can you _convince_ me not to enjoy strawberry cheesecake, or the Beatles, or anything mentioned in Cafe Society for that matter? Why not be consistent and say “I feel like converting to Islam. Can you make me feel bad about it?” ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/100 "2008-12-08T05:35:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The problem is theocracy, not Islam. Christian theocracies have taken a backseat to no one in oppression and terror. I’d agree if today’s date were December 8, 1493 or so. But have you any cites for the last 50 years or so? In fact are there any Christian theocracies right now? And if so, what have they done that compares to the stuff mentioned above? BTW, I’m signing off and have a busy week planned. If you choose to respond I can’t promise I’ll be back at SDMB within the next few days. But I will check in here eventually. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133.md?page=6)