# Convince me not to convert to Islam. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133 "2008-12-07T15:14:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/101 "2008-12-08T05:44:56Z")
> [@Plan\_B](#): > > I’d agree if today’s date were December 8, 1493 or so. But have you any cites for the last 50 years or so? In fact are there any Christian theocracies right now? And if so, what have they done that compares to the stuff mentioned above? BTW, I’m signing off and have a busy week planned. If you choose to respond I can’t promise I’ll be back at SDMB within the next few days. But I will check in here eventually. No, there aren’t any Christian theocracies anymore. What is your point? What difference does it make when they existed? The point is that theocracy is bad, regardless of the religion in question. Islamic theocracy is not a failing of the religion, but a failing of the governments. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/102 "2008-12-08T06:06:02Z")
> [@Plan\_B](#): > > In fact are there any Christian theocracies right now? Vatican City. But they’ve been reasonably mellow these last few decades, the pedophile scandal ( obviously not _directly_ of their making ) notwithstanding. Re:Mark Steyn - I have a hard time taking anyone who pushes that “Eurabia” nonsense seriously. He seems far more a polemicist than anything else ( I don’t tend to favour polemicists of any ideological orientation ). Fair enough I guess, if a potential convert wants a glimpse of every sort of argument, including the slightly frothing ones. **blinkthrice** - If you are _really_ serious about converting to a faith, I would expect you would have spent the time getting a fairly thorough grounding in it. If so, some strangers spouting off on the internet shouldn’t have much impact on your decision. I’m assuming this is mostly a lark to stir up discussion rather than a serious call for attempts to change your mind? ( By the way we have had and I believe still do have at least a few other Muslim posters around ) At any rate I have no advice. Similar to a couple of earlier posters, I’m a stone atheist, but far be it from me to try to talk someone out of their religious faith. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/103 "2008-12-08T06:18:52Z")
I’ll give you a dollar if you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![SomeBodyUK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@SomeBodyUK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeBodyUK)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/104 "2008-12-08T07:01:42Z")
My bro’s wife is a Muslim. Most of my best friends are Muslim. I’ve had many debates with them about Islam, they accept that it doesn’t make sense, but they can’t give it up cos they were born into it. Converting out would cause problems. Islam doesn’t accept the theory of evolution. Adam & Eve is a fairytale is it not? Islam doesn’t respect non-believers, apart from “people of the book”. Witness it’s treatment of Hindus and Buddhists. Islam “works” if you don’t look too deeply into it. If you analyse it from a rational perspective, it falls apart. You don’t need religion to be nice to people. You don’t need religion to act like a bastard. Just live your life without religion, it’s just a set of rules… As somebody of Hindu heritage, have you read about how Islam entered northern India? Afghanistan? Iran? It wasn’t peaceful by the way… If you’re wondering why Islam spread so fast, well the Roman and Persian empire were exhausted and fucked up financially. Both armies were very weak at the time of Muhammad. The middle east and north Africa were ripe for conquest. Any other time and Muhammad would have some been some unheard of religious leader who would have been swiftly executed by the Persians or their Arab allies. Many people forget that after Persia, the Arabs & their Muslim allies lost their battles in India. They were stuck west of the Indus for a few hundred years. I knew a guy back in UK who’s father was forced to convert to Islam cos he fell in love with a Saudi woman. He would have been killed if he didn’t convert- he used to be a Hindu. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/105 "2008-12-08T08:49:43Z")
What’s the point of trading one extremely ritualistic religion (Hinduism) for another (Islam)? If you want monotheism, convert to Christianity and be done with it. Spend your life trying to live like Jesus rather than bowing 5 times a day, endlessly debating what is mahram, whether or not the wimmins ought to be covered up in tents and endlessly intoning inshallah after every other word. Or Alhamdullilah. Seriously, of all the converts, Muslims are the most annoying because they are obsessed with getting every single ritualistic detail right (this is a general failing among converts, however). It would be different if you were a born Muslim but I have yet to meet a Muslim convert used to the culture and without the baggage of formerly being a kaffir or a shirk or whatever obnoxious term they use to refer Hindus. Most “reverts” are positively maniacal and always end up along the most fundamentalist track, as if they have to defensively prove they’re committed. Besides, I gotta ask, what kind of omnipotent deity is going to hand down specific details on usury and talk about spreading the faith through the sword? I seriously suspect you’re going through a phase and possibly trying to irritate your parents, however. I see Hinduism --\> some liberal branch of Christianity as a more normal path. Do you seriously want to convert to a religion where you will go to a mosque and hear your religious leaders shittalk the rest of your family as going to hell and expendable in any ensuing holy war? Your choice. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/106 "2008-12-08T12:43:55Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > Right, and for most of my life, that’s how I viewed the concept of “God,” if God did in fact exist. It’s just that such a deity, if he did create everything thats around us just to step back and let us fend for ourselves without offering us some sort of guidance from time to time, wouldn’t be worth worshipping, let alone recognizing. If I father a child, but I don’t support that child throughout it’s life or even grace it with my presence, can I really claim to be that childs father and expect no objection? > > To me Islam is first and foremost about recognizing that there is one ultimate source for everything that exists, and that is God. If somebody can’t quite come to grips with that inital idea, then it would make no sense trying to convince that person to believe in other aspects of the faith, like angels, prophets, revelations etc. I don’t think that even the most pious of believers could credibly claim to wholly “understand” things of that nature for the simple fact that we weren’t meant to. > > What attracted me to Islam is that it recognizes this pretty much right off the bat, and the Qur’an presents itself in a way where you can choose to believe in it and reap it’s benefits, or you can reject it completely and go on about your merry way. Muhammad was never commanded to convince or convert in the Qur’an, but simply to warn and organize those who responded to the message. You are stating that Muhammad talked directly to God? How do you know it was God who spoke to him and not just his own innerself? In other words you believe that Muhammad was telling the truth but any others were not? So your belief is not in God but in Muhammad. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/107 "2008-12-08T12:46:13Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Except of course for the creation itself. > > There is no direct evidence for dark matter. Lots of people seem to believe in it. > > I have no direct evidence for a place called “China,” but I believe in it. Faith is (as Thomas said) “belief in things not seen.” There is no evidence for creation either, just existence. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/108 "2008-12-08T12:49:04Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > I could never come to grips with the doctrine of the trinity or a three-in-one God, just as I could never come to grips with seeing my reasonably educated family members giving food, money, and flowers to statues and idols. What religion gives food, money, and flowers to statues and idols? They may lay things before it, but it is just a symbolic jesture, just as people lay flowers at a person’s grave or death site. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/109 "2008-12-08T12:55:29Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Is Allah the god you want? Is His demands on humanity reasonable? Have you read through the Koran to find out for yourself what is really in there, or are you just taking men’s word for what is there? I don’t pretend to know the in’s and out’s of Islam, but compare to what I do know: > > My own view of a follower of Jesus, I have found that there is a lot of man made rules, and a lot of work required by man that Jesus never intended for us. My own view of the condition of salvation that Jesus offers is admit that you can’t achieve salvation on your own, and you accept Jesus as God and Lord and His free gift of salvation and ask Him to come into your heart. This is the only thing Jesus requires us to do total and grants complete eternal security. This is the gospel which means the ‘good news’, it is really that simple. > > And just to complete the picture, all the rest comes as Jesus lives through us. Jesus really does empower us and lead our lives, so worship is because we want to, going to church is because we want to, proving people around us when we need them, helping others comes from a deep down Love for your fellow man. We don’t live the christian lifestyle in our own power, God never intended us to, and we really can not. Your belief system helps you and that is fine, but your argument is no different then a Muslim’s , You believe the humans wrote and taught about God and Jesus , Muslims believe in what Muhammad wrote and taught about the Koran and God. To each his own as long as it brings no harm to any other being. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/110 "2008-12-08T12:57:38Z")
> [@blinkthrice](#): > > I log onto the internet well over 5 times a day, so if dedicating 15-20 minutes of my day to prayer brings me peace and tranquility, I don’t necessarily see that as an inconvenience. You might consider the rules laid out by Islam to be repressive, and that’s fine, but that’s also the reason why you aren’t a Muslim. That’s fine as well. > > As for God, if I believed that God had a beginning, I wouldn’t consider that “God” to be worthy of worship, or to be God at all for that matter. Did the place where God resides also have no beginning? Or was god nowhere? Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/111 "2008-12-08T13:12:06Z")
[QUOTE=blinkthrice] Convince me not to convert to Islam. [/QUOTE] Please please please please please don’t convert to Islam. Pretty please. I’ll be your best friend. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/112 "2008-12-08T13:21:49Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Um, did I just misread this or does **kanicbird** think there are multiple Gods and we can pick between them? This seems to be a serious departure from the monotheism line we’ve heard so far. > > Good for you, K.B., glad to see you’re open to new, polytheistic ideas. In the meantime, I’m just gonna stand over here in case of lightning. There are many gods: [QUOTE=1 Corinthians 8:5] For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), [/QUOTE] Even the Lord says even men are gods: [QUOTE= Ps 82:6] "I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ [/QUOTE] There are many gods, it’s who you worship, which can be God, Satan, other demons or men. God allows us to go our own ways and worship whatever god we chose. He will not force us to worship Him, He just offers the true Love and acceptance that we were made for. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/113 "2008-12-08T13:26:12Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Your belief system helps you and that is fine, but your argument is no different then a Muslim’s , You believe the humans wrote and taught about God and Jesus , Muslims believe in what Muhammad wrote and taught about the Koran and God. No God wrote and taught about Jesus, sometimes using men, but it was God through them. > [@](#): > > To each his own as long as it brings no harm to any other being. > > Monavis Agreed, that’s why I’m stating what I am. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/114 "2008-12-08T15:00:37Z")
Once again, I grow interested as to Kanicbird’s denomination, as he says things that would have gotten him pressed to death a few hundred years back. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/115 "2008-12-08T15:11:19Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Once again, I grow interested as to Kanicbird’s denomination, as he says things that would have gotten him pressed to death a few hundred years back. I’m starting to think he’s Hindu. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/116 "2008-12-08T15:13:16Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Once again, I grow interested as to Kanicbird’s denomination, as he says things that would have gotten him pressed to death a few hundred years back. Though I attend various church worship services across denominations, I don’t label myself with a denomination and consider myself a follower of Jesus. And who said that my beliefs can’t get me the death sentence today, I have already been confined against my will for the gospel and if it were not for direct intervention by the Lord Jesus I would have either had to give up my faith to be released or die there. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/117 "2008-12-08T15:30:02Z")
It is always a mistake to talk about religion in a serious way on this board. Too many people think it’s open license to insult and berate you for making a decision they cannot understand. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/118 "2008-12-08T15:41:50Z")
It is a mistake because too many religious nuts think atheists were born in a vacuum and suddenly exist with no knowledge or background in religion. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/119 "2008-12-08T15:49:37Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is a mistake because too many religious nuts think atheists were born in a vacuum and suddenly exist with no knowledge or background in religion. No it’s a mistake because the atheists are generally immature pedants who think they have a holy obligation to be assholes so that people will be too embarassed to be religious. I speak to lots of atheists who are polite and make their points cogently. Just not on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133/120 "2008-12-08T16:09:00Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > No it’s a mistake because the atheists are generally immature pedants who think they have a holy obligation to be assholes so that people will be too embarassed to be religious. > > I speak to lots of atheists who are polite and make their points cogently. Just not on the SDMB. It’s not our fault what you believe has no basis beyond tradition and wishful thinking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-not-to-convert-to-islam/476133.md?page=7)