Given this attitude, why would anybody bother?
The question is will any of those things change your mind? If I could convince you that there are scientific inaccuracies in the Quran, would it affect your decision to convert?
Evidence that Allah is cruel and unjust is clear cut. Those who think rationally and don’t accept that Islam was actually brought down through an angel are doomed to an eternity of hell fire. How do you reconcile that punishment with Allah being beneficent and merciful? Do you believe that punishment fits the crime of not believing a claim which billions don’t find enough evidence to justify?
Islam is a broad collection of interpretations. I am sure you can find a collection of believers whose understanding of what submitting to Allah means is that which you would be comfortable with, and others who will condemn your interpretations. If belonging to and identifying with a particular religious group is important to you, and you believe you find it within Islam, then more power to you.
Of course you will find intolerant Muslims who would beat you or worse if you dared to express atheism or something else in their midst and those sorts are perhaps more overrepresented in the Arab world than in the West - but I wouldn’t think I would do so well wearing a sign saying there is no god in many parts of the South either. The fact that there are those whose interpretations are not those you agree with is immaterial.
But why do you feel the need to join a group right now? Given your background it seems that a less committal theistic spiritualism, appreciative of the commonalities of many faiths, would be more your style. Doesn’t joining a group to some extent limits your ability to find the brotherhood across all groups, even if your chosen interpretation of its sacred texts emphasizes brotherhood?
- Figure out whether there’s a local Islamic community that you are comfortable with. I suspect that the social aspect of religion will be of greater relevance than whether you believe in the trinity. You might even want to ponder which religion would provide the best grounding to your present or future 8 year old.
(Here is a orthodox defense of trinity, IIRC: Q: Three in one: it makes no sense. A: That’s the mystery! )
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Unitarians! They’re non-doctrinal and even agnostic-friendly!
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Buddhists! No castes! Solid philosophy! The only rub is the reincarnation bit – but that can be interpreted figuratively! Or not!
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Baha’i! Inclusive! Boring - and boring can be a good thing! The only rub is theism – and that doesn’t seem to be an issue with you.
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Ethical culture! Interesting lectures! Only a few meeting places – but there’s one in NYC! Succumbing to demographics!
Critique of Islam: Islam tends towards fundamentalism, especially the Wahhabi varieties. Do you really believe that borrowing and lending at fixed rates is necessarily a bad thing? (Well, without well defined bankruptcy procedures, it probably is pretty dubious. But we’ve had laws and procedures in place to take the edge off of usury for over a hundred years now.)
What about the 4 pillars of Islam? How do you feel about committing to them?
Have you found a specific mosque with doctrines and expectations that are practical for you?
Another thing you should consider asking is, is Islam a religion of slavery or freedom? I have to go from a Christian viewpoint from the Bible, I don’t know about how the Koran presents the message, but Islam claims descendant through Ishmael, who is the child born to the slave woman Hagar, born to Abram and Sarai. This would place their descendants into bondage.
Issac was born of and Sarah the free woman, and it was after God had give new names to them (now Abraham and Sarah).
Does modern Islamic worship practices reflect more of freedom for the worshiper or bondage to it?
Islam doesn’t believe that Hagar was Abraham’s slave.
Does it claim that she was from Egypt, and does Islam associate Egypt with the land of slavery?
She is from Egypt. She’s either the Pharaoh’s daughter or a slave of his, who the Pharaoh gives to Abraham as either a servant or a wife.
But the thing to remember, according to Islamic law, the child of a slave and her master isn’t a slave, and that also frees the slave. So, there’s no distinction between Ishmael’s and Isaac’s status, except that Ishmael is the elder and the primary heir.
Do you want to ride on an airplane without a full body cavity search? Ever again?
Question answered.
Interesting. What does the Koran say about God changing the names to Abraham and Sarah and if it happened before or after Ishmael was born/conceived?
Um, gang. If moderate Islam is strengthened, that’s a good thing generally speaking. There are plenty of tolerant strains of Islam, and if they were more vocal we’d all be better off.
So we don’t have to ponder blinkthrice’s conversion with fear and trepidation: he seems like a prudent man.
In practice, what would happen if blinkthrice changes his mind later? After all, “The four major Sunni and the one major Shia Madh’hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) agree that a sane adult male apostate must be executed.” Does blinkthrice intend to remain in the West?
Salman Rushdie would probably disagree that location matters. Western practice of Islam may be less restrictive but it does not preclude the jurist actions of it’s leaders from afar.
I would expect the choice of religion to be based on how one perceives a Supreme Being.
Is a monotheistic God all-powerful?
Is God infinite?
Did God create the Universe and all that is in it?
Was this done with benevolent or malevolent intent?
Would a prophet of God express a spiritual union in the form of a conquering warrior/slave relationship or that of a parent to a child who is to be loved and nurtured?
I would expect any creations from an infinite Supreme Being to be a labor of love, something to be cherished and grown. No amount of mortal commitment or rejection would justify an infinite reward or punishment. Any religion expressing concern for my well being should reflect this.
Completely pointless to try to convince people as badly prejudiced and as obviously clueless as you are. There are more than a billion Muslims out there and it would be very easy for anybody making this kind of statements to meet some of them, hear what they say, read what they write, and realize how horribly wrong they were (and apologize profusely as a result for having been such a dick).
But of course, this won’t happen . Having a convenient human group to hate and rave about is way too pleasant, isn’t it? And so easy.
This post was solely intended to express my utter disdain for people like you. You aren’t just ignorant. You’re part of the problem we face. The actions you’re denouncing come from the very same source of hatred, prejudice and wilful ignorance that is filling you.
I assume this is going to get me my first warning in 7 or 8 years posting. But I couldn’t care less. I’m fed up with the clueless and hateful morons broadcasting their idiotic prejudices against Muslims in good conscience.
Go crawl under the rock you share with the racists, antisemites , and all the members of your genus. Just hate each other and let us civilized people alone, please.
I dunno; on the assumption that Islam will eventually take over the world, the OP will have the opportunity to say “I converted before it was cool and required by law.”
Anyway, among my own objections to Islam (and Christianity) is the built-in message of required submission. Fuck that. If there is a God, I gotta assume he gave me a brain and free will for a reason, not just to stroke his ego.
You’re a grownup. You can make up your own mind.
I vote that blinkthrice convert to Islam. We could use a few more informed Muslims on the board.
I recon converting to a new religion isn’t like picking the right coat for the weather, not something you do because it is practical or attractive, sounds cool or looks good on your resume, but something you do because you believe in the God. If you already believe in the God described in Islam’s holy texts, then you are already a Muslim. If you don’t believe in them, no amount of saying some three words will make you a Muslim. You can’t choose to become a Muslim.
But not regardless of religion, since the brotherhood is only for Muslims. Women isn’t quite there on the same terms either. You might also want to look up the things Muhammed says about negroes and about slavery.
Web Page Under Construction Here is a photo of the earth from space. It is just another rock among billions of others. The universe is a huge and weird place. If you actually think some kind of creature made this ,good for you. But what kind of arrogance would it take to believe this thing wants you to pray to it. This earth is nothing in the scheme of things. We are insignificant ,temporary critters just going through a brief existence and then gone forever. Our planet is less than a speck. A couple million miles away we do not exist. On this obscure little rock we can not even agree about a god. Religion. what a waste of time and trouble.
Another one of my friends recently converted to Islam. She is a pretty normal white middle class girl from the Pacific Northwest.
We both spent two years in a mostly Muslim part of Cameroon. Islam, as it was practiced there, is really quite beautiful. There is something really beautiful about the call to prayer, the modest and simple rhythms of life, the greetings of “sallam alaikum” and the blessings everyone routinely wished on each other through the course of the day. Islam has a lot in it about helping the poor, and treating guests well. You could really see this. Everyone could count on dinner at somebody’s table, even if the only reason they didn’t have their own food was pure laziness. There were no orphaned kids roaming around, but every moderately wealthy household usually had a few kids hanging around that weren’t their own. The crazies and homeless usually had someplace to go at night. People took care of each other. Not with any show or anything. The did it because that is just what people do.
Islam, as practiced there, is a simple, peaceful, sober and welcoming religion. It wasn’t a paradise by any means- child marriage was still the hip thing- but the place did have its good points.
Anyway, I personally can’t make sense of theism, but I can certainly see the attraction.