Convince me that assisted suicide is unethical

[PookahMacPhellimey]

I’m sure most people in that situation do manage - assisted suicide is mostly for people who need assistance. If you’re conscious and able to communicate, but you’re stuck in a bed or a wheelchair, you’ll probably have trouble doing yourself in.

I’m not sure I agree with that. A person in a wheelchair would surely be well able to buy and swallow sleeping pills, find a kitchen knife and cut an artery or whatever. Of course recognise that there are such instances where it would be very hard or impossible, but the point I’m making is that these instances are rare and moreoever, rarer than they are made out to be. I believe that there is a significant amount of people asking for help assistance for other reasons than practical inability.

Only if you believe that the most important goal is keeping someone alive, whether or not they enjoy living.

It’s their own decision. The distinction here is between someone wanting to die themselves and actually agreeing with them and helping them to do it. To use a wonky analogy; I believe that people have the freedom to hold certain political beliefs that I personally feel are misguided. However, I would always try to argue with them. Yes, I personnally believe suicide is not the answer and but that doesn’t mean I would stop anyone by force from killing themselves. Nonetheless I would do whatever I could to change their mind. Helping out is the exact opposite of that.

The final sentence from that article is quite telling:

Clearly, the author does believe that keeping humans alive is the #1 goal, regardless of whether they enjoy living. I sure wouldn’t want a person like that making any medical decisions on my behalf.

I agree it is a matter of belief and I do believe suicide is wrong 99.99% of the time. You are perfectly free to disagree with that. I think what is being discussed here, though, is whether someone’s belief that suicide is the answer actually entails the RIGHT to by helped by another person. Just because someone personally feels it’s the right choice for them and has individual freedom of action does not make it a universal moral right.

[Ms2001]

@PookahMacPhellimey

I’m not sure I agree with that. A person in a wheelchair would surely be well able to buy and swallow sleeping pills, find a kitchen knife and cut an artery or whatever.

Sure - if he’s at home. Not so likely if he’s in a hospital or some other kind of institution.

Of course recognise that there are such instances where it would be very hard or impossible, but the point I’m making is that these instances are rare and moreoever, rarer than they are made out to be. I believe that there is a significant amount of people asking for help assistance for other reasons than practical inability.

Well, we’ll have to disagree on that.

I can see why someone would ask for help because he’s afraid of screwing it up himself, or causing more pain in the process than is necessary: if you hit a nerve instead of an artery with that knife, you’re just paralyzed; if you don’t take enough pills, you’ll wake up in the hospital with your stomach pumped and under 24 hour surveillance; if you don’t know how to tie a noose, you’ll just hang there suffocating for minutes.

But other than those reasons, I don’t believe many people would ask for help if they could do it themselves. And while I certainly wouldn’t help anyone who could do it themselves, because it’d suggest that they hadn’t thought it through, and I personally don’t want to be a part of that, I think people who haven’t thought it through have just as much right to kill themselves as anyone else.

It’s their own decision. The distinction here is between someone wanting to die themselves and actually agreeing with them and helping them to do it. To use a wonky analogy; I believe that people have the freedom to hold certain political beliefs that I personally feel are misguided. However, I would always try to argue with them. Yes, I personnally believe suicide is not the answer and but that doesn’t mean I would stop anyone by force from killing themselves. Nonetheless I would do whatever I could to change their mind.

That’s certainly your choice to make. But saying it’s unethical to help out is like saying it’s unethical not to argue with someone who has misguided political beliefs. There are times when it’s better to smile and nod than to start an argument; there are also times when it’s better to help a loved one with something you don’t entirely agree with than to try to change his mind, and it’s the responsibility of the would-be assistant to decide if his situation is one of those times.

I agree it is a matter of belief and I do believe suicide is wrong 99.99% of the time. You are perfectly free to disagree with that. I think what is being discussed here, though, is whether someone’s belief that suicide is the answer actually entails the RIGHT to by helped by another person. Just because someone personally feels it’s the right choice for them and has individual freedom of action does not make it a universal moral right.

I think it does. If you want to do something, and it’s OK for you to do it by yourself, then it’s OK for someone to help you with it; IMO the “right to assistance” is something we all implicitly have by virtue of living in a human society, and while there are a few exceptions, this isn’t one of them.

[iamme99]

Here’s a very good personal story on this issue that ran in Friday’s SF Chronicle newspaper.

Laurie Falco wants to die soon. She isn’t sure exactly when, but soon. She underlined the word on the sheet of notebook paper on which she answered my questions Thursday. Her writing is light and spidery, making it difficult to read. But it is her only means of communicating. Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, ALS, has taken her voice, just as it has taken her ability to swallow food, to walk more than a few feet, to breathe on her own at night.

She doesn’t fear death. She fears being trapped inside a silent, useless shell that was once her body. She knows, no matter what her church friends say, that life can be worse than death. She saw it firsthand while caring for her mother as she descended into the tumultuous fog of Alzheimer’s, slowly losing her mind, her bowel control, her ability to tame her abusive language and violent outbursts.

Woman has no option for death with dignity