# Convince me that government helps the poor **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707 "2012-09-24T20:44:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/61 "2012-09-25T17:02:52Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > AFAICT, government spending as a share of GDP and regulation have grown quite a bit in the past few decades in other developed countries as well, even while their inequality levels have remained stable or shrunk. So your correlation doesn’t appear to be reliable. I would need to know which other developed countries you’re talking about. Some developed countries have moved towards more government and regulation in recent years. Others have moved towards less. Heritage’s Index of Economic Freedom site provides a tool to look at how economic freedom rankings have changed over the years, though unfortunately data goes back only to 1995. If we compare, for instance, [USA vs. Canada](http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=unitedstates%7Ccanada&src=country), we see that the USA’s economic freedom has been sliding downward while Canada’s has moved upwards. Other countries that are often cited as examples of good big government have also moved upwards, including Germany, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/62 "2012-09-25T17:21:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Let’s think about some semi-hypothetical students: > > Lars’s mom and dad are split up. Mom hates dad, who just got out of prison. Lars missed 37 days of second grade and only came to a teacher conference because of a court order; that same order, hanging over her head, is all that gets her to wake Lars up each morning and get him to school this year. > > Shelly’s dad is awaiting trial for aggravated assault; he’s already spent 30 years of his life in prison, and he’s likely to go back. The only reason Shelly and her eight siblings still live with her mom is because, after dad’s abuse was discovered by a teacher, mom agreed to kick dad out of the house. Mom still leaves the kids alone at home sometimes so she can go visit dad. Shelly never ever does her homework, not even after a social worker has gone to Shelly’s house and helped mom set up a homework schedule. > > Bill’s dad is out of the picture entirely. Mom has been in and out of the court system. She hates schools, comes to them mainly to yell at teachers about how her kids are getting picked on, even though Bill has a bad tendency to instigate fights with his classmates. Bill never does homework, has a hair-trigger temper, and frequently talks about how he hates school and doesn’t want to learn anything. > > Laura’s parents are divorced but attend conferences together. When Laura slacks off on homework, her teacher emails her parents, and homework plus additional assignments come in the next day. Her parents email her teacher whenever they have a question. They do independent research and discover supplementary materials to use to teach math to their daughter, who is struggling in math. They let the classroom teacher know about these materials and ask for guidance on incorporating them with the classroom work. > > If you think that Bill, Shelly, or Lars has a chance in hell of getting into a charter school, you’re–well, let’s say **mistaken** , out of deference for the forum. > > Set aside the question of whether they’d get accepted by the charter school (or the private school). In all these cases, none of these parents are both able and willing to jump through the necessary hoops to get their kid into an alternative school. > > As for the kids? Bill, Shelly, and Lars are very likely to suffer from PTSD. They’re likely to witness or experience violence on a regular basis at home. They’re likely to have zero support from their parents on homework, to the extent that their parents don’t even give them a quiet space and time in which they can complete their assignments. They’re likely to come to school in fight-or-flight mode, treating school like a warzone–and in so doing, bringing a little bit of the battlefield with them to school. > > A transfer to a generic charter or private school, one that’s not designed specifically to help kids undergoing PTSD (although we should take that P away), isn’t going to change any of that. Instead, if somehow these kids got some support from someone beside their parents so that they got enrolled in a charter or private school, you’d see the battlefield enter those environments as well. > > You want to solve the problems with public schools? Start with the unendurable environments these kids experience after school. Man, I endorse this post. Seriously, now how? Stopping parents from having kids out of wedlock? You can’t do much to create a better home environment for the kids but I’d be interested in your take. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/63 "2012-09-25T17:58:06Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Heritage’s Index of Economic Freedom site provides a tool to look at how economic freedom rankings have changed over the years, though unfortunately data goes back only to 1995. If we compare, for instance, [USA vs. Canada](http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize?countries=unitedstates%7Ccanada&src=country), we see that the USA’s economic freedom has been sliding downward while Canada’s has moved upwards. Other countries that are often cited as examples of good big government have also moved upwards, including Germany, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland. Then you also need to specify exactly which time period you mean by “recent years”, and justify why you think the Economic Freedom Index (which includes a wide variety of factors including lack of governmental corruption) is a valid proxy for “government spending” _tout court_. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/64 "2012-09-25T18:49:24Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Man, I endorse this post. Seriously, now how? > Stopping parents from having kids out of wedlock? You can’t do much to create a better home environment for the kids but I’d be interested in your take. I don’t know how, to be honest. We need to figure that out, though. Complaining about the quality of public schools is like blaming hospitals for the AIDS epidemic. Schools are often put in the position of treating the problems generated in other areas of our society (and to be clear, the problems I’m talking about are the stress and emotional/mental disabilities resulting from that stress, not the kids with the stress). That’s fine, we’re kind of on the front lines for treating those problems. But we need to quit pretending that we’re the cause of the problems, and we need to recognize that a true solution is going to happen outside of the school. You solve the AIDS epidemic by encouraging safe sex, and you solve the education crisis by encouraging effective parenting. Obviously we work with the situation we have, so we teachers will continue to do everything we can to help kids in intolerable situations learn and thrive. But if we as a society are serious, we need to own up to the intolerable situations that our society tolerates, and figure out a way to end them. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/65 "2012-09-25T19:10:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If you think that Bill, Shelly, or Lars has a chance in hell of getting into a charter school, you’re–well, let’s say **mistaken** , out of deference for the forum. > > Set aside the question of whether they’d get accepted by the charter school (or the private school). In all these cases, none of these parents are both able and willing to jump through the necessary hoops to get their kid into an alternative school. A nitpick, but Charter schools are generally required to accept all eligible students. If too many kids apply, they hold a lottery. Your last sentence is correct and is a key reason for Charter school’s success: They self select for parents who have the desire and ability to fill out an application. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/66 "2012-09-25T19:32:47Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > A nitpick, but Charter schools are generally required to accept all eligible students. If too many kids apply, they hold a lottery. This is true in law, but not always in deed. A charter school does not need to provide free and reduced lunch. It does not need to provide transportation. It does not need to provide IDEA-compliant services (I believe). A kid living in poverty may not be able to attend a school if she cannot get transportation, and she may need that free midday meal for basic nutritional purposes. She may need exceptional children classes. If a poor malnourished kid with an IEP is technically accepted at a charter school that doesn’t provide lunch, transportation, or EC services, how much is that acceptance really worth? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/67 "2012-09-25T22:27:41Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I would need to know which other developed countries you’re talking about. Some developed countries have moved towards more government and regulation in recent years. Others have moved towards less. Heritage’s Index of Economic Freedom site provides a tool to look at how economic freedom rankings have changed over the years, though unfortunately data goes back only to 1995. Oh, please; why should anyone trust anything that comes from a bunch of right wing liars like the Heritage Foundation? Somehow I doubt that their idea of what “economic freedom” means benefits anyone but the wealthy and the ruthless. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/68 "2012-09-26T03:23:41Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Well that’s a bit of a different question from the title of this thread. Saying that public expenditures _primarily_ benefit the middle class (or upper) is different than claiming that government never benefits the poor. In fact, many expenditures that primarily benefit the middle class have at worst neutral impact on the poor. I didn’t claim that government never benefits the poor in any case. The title of the thread asks for evidence that government action considered in its totality is good for the poor. Obviously there are some government programs that benefit the poor, but if they are dwarfed by programs that benefit the rich and the middle class, then that destroys the main argument for government intervention that I hear around this board and elsewhere. Every day someone posts explaining that the people who want to cut government must hate the poor. If government vacuums up taxes, fees, and more from all income levels and benefits primarily the upper income tiers, then what’s the logic behind that? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/69 "2012-09-26T03:39:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So, what’s you’re supporting is a subsidy program for education. Have you thought a lot about the economic wisdom of subsidies, as opposed to the provision of a service? I always found this interesting that many conservatives find subsidies to be quite bad government policy because of the market distortions that they create. Like, food subsidies tend to be bad (for example, increasing demand for something that’s subsidized would tend to cause prices to rise _because_ of the subsidy, but there may be countervailing effects too) but for some reason the idea of subsidies for education and health care are popular ideas among conservatives. > > So, why do you like subsidies in this case? In the USA, there’s a right to K-12 education; the question is whether it’s better for the government to provide it to people by forcing poor children to show up at a particular school that’s entirely controlled by the government, or by offering poor families a voucher that lets them choose where to send their kids to school. That’s an entirely different situation from the subsides which conservatives ([and liberals](http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/08/29/307289/americas-worst-federal-spending-is-generally-its-least-controversial/?mobile=nc)) oppose. Those subsidies often encourage people to do stupid things. Take the example of the National Flood Insurance Program. If it didn’t exist, Mr. Rich Bastard might think twice about building an expensive vacation home on the shores of a river where flooding was common, or a beach house that was vulnerable to hurricanes. But since the program exists, Rich gets subsidized insurance and if his house is destroyed, he gets it rebuilt without paying a penny. Undoubtedly this has motivated many people to build in places where it normally wouldn’t make financial sense. It’s another example of government benefits going mainly to those in the upper income tiers. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/70 "2012-09-26T03:47:19Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I didn’t claim that government never benefits the poor in any case. The title of the thread asks for evidence that government action considered in its totality is good for the poor. Again; the poor are neither overwhelmingly illiterate, nor are they starving to death on a regular basis. Those are things that millennia of non-government people and organizations failed to achieve. That alone demonstrates that the government is better than private groups at helping the poor. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Obviously there are some government programs that benefit the poor, but if they are dwarfed by programs that benefit the rich and the middle class, then that destroys the main argument for government intervention that I hear around this board and elsewhere. Nonsense. Just because the poor don’t get their fair share, doesn’t mean that them getting _nothing_ would be better. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Every day someone posts explaining that the people who want to cut government must hate the poor. The fact that they nearly always demonstrate disdain or outright hatred towards the poor makes the conclusion inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/71 "2012-09-26T16:25:01Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In the USA, there’s a right to K-12 education; the question is whether it’s better for the government to provide it to people by forcing poor children to show up at a particular school that’s entirely controlled by the government, or by offering poor families a voucher that lets them choose where to send their kids to school. That’s an entirely different situation from the subsides which conservatives ([and liberals](http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/08/29/307289/americas-worst-federal-spending-is-generally-its-least-controversial/?mobile=nc)) oppose. Those subsidies often encourage people to do stupid things. Under your voucher plan, what’s preventing every parent of every child from sending thier special snowflake to the best school? How does that work? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/72 "2012-09-26T17:11:42Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Under your voucher plan, what’s preventing every parent of every child from sending thier special snowflake to the best school? How does that work? The entire point is that poor parents will be able to send their children to the best schools. That’s what distinguishes voucher systems from the system that rules in most American cities, where poor children are mostly trapped in lousy schools. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/73 "2012-09-26T17:41:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is true in law, but not always in deed. A charter school does not need to provide free and reduced lunch. It does not need to provide transportation. It does not need to provide IDEA-compliant services (I believe). A kid living in poverty may not be able to attend a school if she cannot get transportation, and she may need that free midday meal for basic nutritional purposes. She may need exceptional children classes. > > If a poor malnourished kid with an IEP is technically accepted at a charter school that doesn’t provide lunch, transportation, or EC services, how much is that acceptance really worth? Point taken. Most of the charter schools I’ve been associated with do provide these things but I’m sure there are many that don’t. I don’t know what the laws regarding these things are in every jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/74 "2012-09-26T17:56:29Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In the USA, there’s a right to K-12 education; the question is whether it’s better for the government to provide it to people by forcing poor children to show up at a particular school that’s entirely controlled by the government, or by offering poor families a voucher that lets them choose where to send their kids to school. I would be OK with a voucher system as long as the schools had to accept the voucher as full payment and the school were subject to the regulatory oversight. BUT… When people say voucher instead of charter school, they are referring to a voucher that Barack Obama can use to pay part of his tuition bill for his girls at Sidwell Friends. Or a fundamentlist religious school/madrassa. Or homeschooling costs (like private french tutors). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/75 "2012-09-26T18:02:01Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The entire point is that poor parents will be able to send their children to the best schools. I know in Lake Woebegon all the children are above average. Where do you live, that all the schools are above average? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/76 "2012-09-26T18:12:48Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Aren’t you a “less spending / less goverment” kind of guy (Forgive me if I’ve got the wrong guy)? And you’re complaining that the health insurance made available to the poor by the U.S. government isn’t good enough; and by extension, that presumably the gov’t should spend \*more \*on it? > > I absolutely agree that they should. It’s a shame that comprehensive dental coverage is not included in Medicaid (in many states). But it would cost a lot of money to do so. Nonetheless, in many areas there are free or low-cost dental clinics where the poor can get dental care. It seems that visiting one might have saved this boys life. > > In any event, I don’t think see how this is an example of the government not helping the poor. How could providing health insurance be seen in any way as _not_ helping? What I seem to be hearing is the idea that as long as the government provides some sort of coverage, that’s better for the poor than providing nothing at all. I agree. Outside of the Ayn Rand Institute, there’s no one seriously arguing that the government should do nothing for the health care needs of the poor. Right now, the government gives the poor Medicaid, and Medicaid coverage is really lousy. Yet I can’t recall hearing anyone putting a high priority on either improving Medicaid or replacing it with something better. The logic of big government seems to be that as long as we’re doing something for the poor, it doesn’t matter much what we’re doing. The same thinking seems to prevail in education. We have schools for the poor, they’re better than not having schools for the poor, so it’s okay to leave millions of poor kids trapped in schools that the government itself classifies as failing. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/77 "2012-09-26T18:26:55Z")
Wait…what? I think I’m not just speaking for myself when I say I have no clue what your thesis here is. Is your thesis that the poor are not helped as much by government as the middle class? Or is your thesis that the government does more harm to the poor than good? Or is your thesis that, notwithstanding what good the government now does, it could do more? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/78 "2012-09-26T19:08:25Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The same thinking seems to prevail in education. We have schools for the poor, they’re better than not having schools for the poor, so it’s okay to leave millions of poor kids trapped in schools that the government itself classifies as failing. Where on earth are you hearing that? Nobody but nobody is saying that. Are you hearing people saying that your voucher solution is a crappy non-solution, and thinking that if we don’t like your solution, we must love the status quo? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/79 "2012-09-26T19:47:50Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > What I seem to be hearing is the idea that as long as the government provides some sort of coverage, that’s better for the poor than providing nothing at all. I agree. Outside of the Ayn Rand Institute, there’s no one seriously arguing that the government should do nothing for the health care needs of the poor. Right now, the government gives the poor Medicaid, and Medicaid coverage is really lousy. Yet I can’t recall hearing anyone putting a high priority on either improving Medicaid or replacing it with something better. The logic of big government seems to be that as long as we’re doing something for the poor, it doesn’t matter much what we’re doing. The same thinking seems to prevail in education. We have schools for the poor, they’re better than not having schools for the poor, so it’s okay to leave millions of poor kids trapped in schools that the government itself classifies as failing. Medicaid is a kind of voucher system for healthcare for the poor - who of course go to private doctors. How is Medicaid lousy? Is it because it doesn’t cover enough people? Is it because it does not pay doctors adequately? Both of these things will take more money to rectify. Do you really doubt that in a voucher system for schools, even if it started with enough money, budget pressures would cut voucher amounts. And how do you propose preventing schools from charging money? And you didn’t answer the question about controlling access to the schools. It will have to be rationed. I believe charter schools - which let kids get out of bad schools - have lottery systems. In any case school quality is strongly dependent on parental concern and involvement. And income. In our district the best predictor of elementary school test scores is participation in the free lunch program. None of this gets fixed by voucher systems. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707/80 "2012-09-26T19:51:46Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Take the example of the National Flood Insurance Program. If it didn’t exist, Mr. Rich Bastard might think twice about building an expensive vacation home on the shores of a river where flooding was common, or a beach house that was vulnerable to hurricanes. But since the program exists, Rich gets subsidized insurance and if his house is destroyed, he gets it rebuilt without paying a penny. Undoubtedly this has motivated many people to build in places where it normally wouldn’t make financial sense. It’s another example of government benefits going mainly to those in the upper income tiers. Cite? And to prevent someone building on a riverbank (and plenty of non-rich people do) how many ordinary people will get wiped out, people who live a bit inland. The parts of New Orleans that flooded the worst were not the richest parts, to put it mildly. I don’t think the French Quarter and the Garden District got affected much at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-government-helps-the-poor/635707.md?page=5)