# Convince me that this isn't the end of the world. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849 "2004-11-03T21:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/21 "2004-11-03T23:48:58Z")
Even if Kerry had won the senate and house are republican so he couldn’t get any of his agendas passed. So its not like things will be alot different now IMO. What I’m grateful for is that only 55 senators are republican, they need 60 to appoint radical nutjobs to the supreme court. With only 55 the democrats can stall them and get more middle of the road justices appointed. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/22 "2004-11-04T00:10:04Z")
Duck Duck bloke and Chastain89, are times not always going to be different due to a number of unstable states with nuclear capability these days as compared to your heyday? There was only one really tangible enemy some years ago surely? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/23 "2004-11-04T00:14:40Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Even if Kerry had won the senate and house are republican so he couldn’t get any of his agendas passed. So its not like things will be alot different now IMO. I disagree. Kerry would’ve faced opposition in Congress and not much would’ve gotten done overall. Bush still has his own party in Congress so a lot _will_ be done. Kerry may not have been able to push much of the Democratic agenda through, but at least he could’ve put the brakes on the Republican agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/24 "2004-11-04T00:28:20Z")
It’s not the end of the world, it’s just yet another nail in the coffin of the shrinking middle class! Enough said! Will work for food, - Jinx ☹ frownin’ until 2008 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/25 "2004-11-04T00:33:31Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > If you want to talk about Paris Hilton, something’s wrong with you, boy. No sense of perspective. _Au contraire._ It is precisely **because** of my sense of perspective that I can tell there are certain parts of Paris Hilton that are closer to the camera than others when I see her on TV. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/26 "2004-11-04T00:36:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 1. Roughly half the American people are seriously committed to traditional religious and moral values and will vote on that basis. They are entirely wrong, because those values are entirely wrong. Yeah, it’s a shame that we don’t get some Liberal “tolerance” in office. :rolleyes: I’m pretty sure your portrayal of half of America as a bunch of religeous zealots is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Pride\_of\_the\_Peaches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Pride\_of\_the\_Peaches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pride_of_the_Peaches)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/27 "2004-11-04T00:38:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I disagree. Kerry would’ve faced opposition in Congress and not much would’ve gotten done overall. Bush still has his own party in Congress so a lot will be done. Kerry may not have been able to push much of the Democratic agenda through, but at least he could’ve put the brakes on the Republican agenda. Thank you, **Mr2001**. This is what I’m referring to. The Republicans have way too much control over the government right now, and Bush doesn’t even have to worry about re-election this time. Since the American people aren’t really paying attention anyway, he’ll be able to do just about whatever he wants. I’m not looking forward to it, to say the least. Geez, haven’t you people ever heard of hyperbole? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/28 "2004-11-04T00:39:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah, it’s a shame that we don’t get some Liberal “tolerance” in office. :rolleyes: Ah yes. When liberals take a moral stand, they’re hypocrites. When they don’t, they’re moral relativists. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/29 "2004-11-04T00:43:45Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > Duck Duck bloke and Chastain89, are times not always going to be different due to a number of unstable states with nuclear capability these days as compared to your heyday? There was only one really tangible enemy some years ago surely? Dagnabbit. You must be too young to remember how that Hollywood Cowboy Reagan was going to call nuclear disaster down upon our heads by pissing off the Russkies (or maybe the Chinese. Or maybe Gaddafi over in Libya would start some shit). Unless we unilaterally disarmed, the Commies were going to be so scared they would launch a first strike out of self defence. There were concerts about it and TV movies and everything. Life has always been dangerous and unstable. We got over it. Today, things are different. We have already been attacked, with thousands of American civilians killed. The majority of American voters wanted someone in office who they know will be proactive to prevent such a terrible thing from happening again, and who they feel understands and shares their beliefs and values. Eastern lawyers who love to hear themselves talk need not apply. ---
**Author:** ![Pride\_of\_the\_Peaches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Pride\_of\_the\_Peaches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pride_of_the_Peaches)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/30 "2004-11-04T00:46:05Z")
Oh, and you asked for my specific concerns. Here you go: 1. Education, especially higher education. I’m an undergrad student at a Wisconsin state school. Tuition went up 35% between last year and this year. No one’s really stepping in for us either. 2. Jobs. When I get out of school, I will need to acquire one of these. Will the job market be this dead or worse then? 3. Civil rights in general . . . Privacy, women’s rights, gay rights. Is he REALLY going to amend the Constitution? 4. Health care. Is it just going to keep getting more and more expensive? ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/31 "2004-11-04T00:47:05Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Dagnabbit. > > You must be too young to remember how that Hollywood Cowboy Reagan was going to call nuclear disaster down upon our heads by pissing off the Russkies (or maybe the Chinese. Or maybe Gaddafi over in Libya would start some shit). Unless we unilaterally disarmed, the Commies were going to be so scared they would launch a first strike out of self defence. There were concerts about it and TV movies and everything. > > Life has always been dangerous and unstable. We got over it. > > Today, things are different. We have already been attacked, with thousands of American civilians killed. The majority of American voters wanted someone in office who they know will be proactive to prevent such a terrible thing from happening again, and who they feel understands and shares their beliefs and values. > > Eastern lawyers who love to hear themselves talk need not apply. And what they got was someone who would abandon the search for the guy who killed those citizens so he could spike his approval rating by starting an unrelated war. As always, the voters get what they deserve in the end. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/32 "2004-11-04T00:58:57Z")
> [@Pride of the Peaches](#): > > Oh, and you asked for my specific concerns. Here you go: > > 1. Education, especially higher education. I’m an undergrad student at a Wisconsin state school. Tuition went up 35% between last year and this year. No one’s really stepping in for us either. I am the first person in my father’s family to go to college. GI Bill, sweetheart. Nobody gave me the money, I had to trade several years of my life for it. > [@](#): > > 1. Jobs. When I get out of school, I will need to acquire one of these. Will the job market be this dead or worse then? Unable to tell. My current job description did not exist when I graduated. Until the corporate Powers That Be see more profit in keeping jobs in America than shipping them overseas I don’t have much hope. I don’t see where one party would have an advantage over the other in this global marketplace. > [@](#): > > 1. Civil rights in general . . . Privacy, women’s rights, gay rights. Is he REALLY going to amend the Constitution? Only the states can pass a Constitutional amendment. If the majority of your fellow citizens want something in, they will get it. Remember Prohibition. > [@](#): > > 1. Health care. Is it just going to keep getting more and more expensive? Yep. New drugs and treatments are expensive to develop. Your doctor has more tools at his disposal than ever before, and they don’t come cheap. neither does malpracice insurance in a litiginous society. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/33 "2004-11-04T01:09:38Z")
> [@Pride of the Peaches](#): > > Oh, and you asked for my specific concerns. Here you go: > > 1. Education, especially higher education. I’m an undergrad student at a Wisconsin state school. Tuition went up 35% between last year and this year. No one’s really stepping in for us either. You want Bush to bail out STATE colleges? Neither guy would do that. It’s a state matter. Take it up with your governor. > [@](#): > > 1. Jobs. When I get out of school, I will need to acquire one of these. Will the job market be this dead or worse then? The private sector creates jobs, not the government. Do some research and find a field that you enjoy, and that is growing. But keep your options open as things change fast. Think about starting your own business. > [@](#): > > 1. Civil rights in general . . . Privacy, women’s rights, gay rights. Is he REALLY going to amend the Constitution? No. Actually, he can’t. Only Congress and the states can do that. > [@](#): > > 1. Health care. Is it just going to keep getting more and more expensive? Probably. Don’t believe it if any of these guys says he’s going to bring healthcare costs down. Has it ever happened in the last 50 years? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/34 "2004-11-04T01:34:52Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > In all seriousness, however, let’s say Kerry won. Would that have magically changed the votes cast for all the Republicans who will now serve as Representatives for our government? No, but I think we’d be far better off with the resulting divided government (Bush with a Democrat-dominated Congress would be as good, IMO.) However, those aren’t the cards we got dealt. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/35 "2004-11-04T01:40:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We need to seriously consider a national ID card, if that can prevent any doubts about who can vote on e-day. As I mentioned the last time the subject came up, I’d consider an ID **brick** (i.e. an object of sufficient bulk that it would only be trotted out for pre-planned special occasions that legitimately require proof of ID, but would not be routinely carried and thus would resist the sort of mission creep that has occurred with the SSN). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/36 "2004-11-04T01:41:11Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah, it’s a shame that we don’t get some Liberal “tolerance” in office. :rolleyes: > > I’m pretty sure your portrayal of half of America as a bunch of religeous zealots is incorrect. I don’t say they’re zealots. I say their moral and religious values are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/37 "2004-11-04T01:48:51Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > As I mentioned the last time the subject came up, I’d consider an ID **brick** (i.e. an object of sufficient bulk that it would only be trotted out for pre-planned special occasions that legitimately require proof of ID, but would not be routinely carried and thus would resist the sort of mission creep that has occurred with the SSN). I would gladly accept the “mission creep,” if that’s what it takes to make sure that every adult American citizen is **automatically** registered to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cooper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/38 "2004-11-04T01:53:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t say they’re zealots. I say their moral and religious values are wrong. Even if they aren’t wrong, I think its silly to think Bush represents them just because he says he does. I agree with the OP, this country is fucked. And I agree with others who say its been fucked since LBJ (not that it was your point). After LBJ and his great society which introduced civil rights as a mainstay of the democratic platform, the american redneck south has hauled ass to the red side and the supposedly religious right has followed. While I don’t think its about racism anymore, its certainly about your parent’s racism. Now its mostly about hating gays and people who dont like stomping gays, muslims or whatever else it is you hate right now. Personally I wish now that Lincoln hadn’t bothered to hold this country together. I’d like to see the entire south, with its god, guns and glory go off and do its own thing. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/39 "2004-11-04T01:55:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 1. We need to fight for clean-election laws to stop Pub voter intimidation and to get paper trails on all the electronic machines. We need to seriously consider a national ID card, if that can prevent any doubts about who can vote on e-day. Screw paper trails, we need open-source standard voting software with publicly accessible but secure vote repositories. > [@](#): > > 1. We need to change the system. We need a multiparty system and we need ballot fusion, instant runoff voting, and proportional representation. The Pubs have benefited from partisan gerrymandering, and PR makes that impossible. Why are you still pushing IRV after you’ve been [shown](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284577) that it’s horrendous? ---
**Author:** ![TonyF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@TonyF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonyF)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/40 "2004-11-04T01:57:29Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > How’s this: Barack Obama soundly defeated Alan Keyes for U. S. Senator from Illinois. It’s sad how much relief I got from this. But I’m pleased. Well, my proof that it isn’t the end of the world is that some 200,000 Americans are somehow alive - despite P. Diddy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849.md?page=3)