# Convince me that this isn't the end of the world. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849 "2004-11-03T21:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/41 "2004-11-04T01:58:19Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Isn’t this a bad example? Of course, it wasn’t the Apocalypse, but wasn’t Watergate a very bad time in American history, and wasn’t Nixon a crook? I would really & truly be willing to trade Bush The Younger for Tricky Dick, if I could talk Death into the bargan. Reflecting, he may have been a paranoid bastard, but **nobody ever** called him “stupid”. Nixon needed to go, but he _was in fact_ a more able man the Bush The Younger. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/42 "2004-11-04T01:58:39Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > What I’m grateful for is that only 55 senators are republican, they need 60 to appoint radical nutjobs to the supreme court. Where did you get **this** factoid? A simple majority of Senators is all that’s required to approve a presidential Supreme Court appointee. Clarence Thomas made it with only 51 or 52 Senators voting “aye”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/43 "2004-11-04T02:03:30Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Where did you get **this** factoid? > A simple majority of Senators is all that’s required to approve a presidential Supreme Court appointee. Clarence Thomas made it with only 51 or 52 Senators voting “aye”. [Fllibuster.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_%28legislative_tactic%29) You need 60 Senators to stop one. Are you sure you’re a lawyer? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/44 "2004-11-04T02:04:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I would gladly accept the “mission creep,” if that’s what it takes to make sure that every adult American citizen is **automatically** registered to vote. Have you met most of the people in this country? I think we should be glad that only a simple majority of voters are complete gibbering idiots. At least we’ve still got the First and Fourth amendments on the books, even if they’re only in theory. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/45 "2004-11-04T02:19:39Z")
> [@Cooper](#): > > Even if they aren’t wrong, I think its silly to think Bush represents them just because he says he does. True, but it changes nothing. The existence of a massive plurality of social-religious conservative American voters is a problem we have to deal with. To succeed, we have to fight them aggressively on every front while simultaneously trying to educate and convert as many as possible. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/46 "2004-11-04T02:22:41Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Why are you still pushing IRV after you’ve been [shown](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284577) that it’s horrendous? It’s not horrendous. If your demonstrations are correct – I haven’t worked through the math yet – they show merely that IRV is suboptimal for eliminating strategic voting. However, it **does** solve the third-party “spoiler” problem. I might be persuaded to accept the Condorcet or approval voting model as an alternative. The important thing is that we change the system so that minor-party challengers can run without “stealing votes” from the major ones. ---
**Author:** ![Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cooper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/47 "2004-11-04T02:31:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > True, but it changes nothing. The existence of a massive plurality of social-religious conservative American voters is a problem we have to deal with. To succeed, we have to fight them aggressively on every front while simultaneously trying to educate and convert as many as possible. I guess its only a problem if you really care about social issues. I truly believe that the core of the republican party has no interest at all in abortion, gay rights or even guns. I am pretty certain they are just there to take care of business, so they are happy to sponge up all the electorate who are only there to vote for one particular social issue. They don’t appreciate voters who appreciate complexity. In other words, the stupids have it. By definition half the country is stupid and television can make much more than half vote stupid if there is money to pay for it. The democrats cannot win unless they agree to embrace the stupid. They try this with their market protectionist bullshit but no one is really buying. They need a new angle. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/48 "2004-11-04T02:34:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I would gladly accept the “mission creep,” if that’s what it takes to make sure that every adult American citizen is **automatically** registered to vote. I won’t, and I understand Bricker’s point about addressing your arguments to the people as they are instead of trying to force the people to become “enlightened” so that they agree with your superior self. [Heading off to Google online copy of the King James Bible to find chapter and verse on that “forehead or right hand” and “no man can buy or sell without the mark” prophecy…] ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/49 "2004-11-04T02:58:56Z")
Maybe Bush will bring about the end of the world, and maybe he won’t. But the Red Sox winning the World Series has got to be a sign of the Apocalypse. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/50 "2004-11-04T03:16:05Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > Ah yes. When liberals take a moral stand, they’re hypocrites. When they don’t, they’re moral relativists. They do love playing the victim though. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t say they’re zealots. I say their moral and religious values are wrong. In what way? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/51 "2004-11-04T03:23:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > In what way? On abortion, gay marriage, creationism, sexual morality, SOCS, etc. On anything where they conflict with the values and wisdom of rationalism and secular humanism. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/52 "2004-11-04T03:27:48Z")
They are wrong also because, although they claim to be righteous, they honor and serve the Lord God of Israel. I am not an absolute atheist. I do not rule out the possibility that there might be a real God in the universe who is benignly interested in human affairs. But I **do** absolutely rule out the possibility that that God has anything in common with the God of Abraham. That God, whether he exists or not, is an evil abomination, and deserves no worship or obedience. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/53 "2004-11-04T03:31:51Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Of course, it wasn’t the Apocalypse, but wasn’t Watergate a very bad time in American history. . . ? The effect of Watergate on the everyday lives of Americans was close to nil. That’s why I laughed when President Ford, in his first speech to the American people, referred to Watergate as “our long national nightmare.” I thought: Jerry, you need to get outside the Beltway more often. If people were at all passionate about Watergate, it was because the Congressional hearings kept bumping the afternoon soaps. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/54 "2004-11-04T03:41:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Roughly half the American people are seriously committed to traditional religious and moral values and will vote on that basis. They are entirely wrong, because those values are entirely wrong. This is priceless! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/55 "2004-11-04T03:45:51Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > This is priceless! And true. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/56 "2004-11-04T03:57:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > On abortion, gay marriage, creationism, sexual morality, SOCS, etc. On anything where they conflict with the values and wisdom of rationalism and secular humanism. I would bet that few if any of these issues are the primary reasons people voted for Bush. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/57 "2004-11-04T03:59:06Z")
By the way, I’m also very impressed that you know the “right” answer to all those complex issues. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/58 "2004-11-04T04:01:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I would bet that few if any of these issues are the primary reasons people voted for Bush. I don’t think they voted for him for economic reasons. Conservative social values are the things that **define** the red-state voters, regardless of social class. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/59 "2004-11-04T04:03:47Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > By the way, I’m also very impressed that you know the “right” answer to all those complex issues. It helps to be rational and skeptical. When conservatives talk about economic issues and national-security issues, even I have to admit that sometimes they have some really good points. But when they talk about matters of morals, values, and culture, they are **never** right, always wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/60 "2004-11-04T04:13:35Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I would bet that few if any of these issues are the primary reasons people voted for Bush. The exit polls I saw at [cnn.com](http://cnn.com) showed that most Bush voters felt “values” were the most important issue. What else would that refer to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849.md?page=4)