# Convince me that this isn't the end of the world. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849 "2004-11-03T21:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/61 "2004-11-04T04:15:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I would bet that few if any of these issues are the primary reasons people voted for Bush. I live in a very Democratic city (Chicago. Voted something like 70% for Kerry). You’d be surprised at how many one-issue Catholic voters (read: anti-abortion) voted for Bush simply on this fact. I would not be surprised if people like this constitute a signifacant portion of the electorate. Social issues are certainly a big reason Bush got elected into office. It certainly wasn’t for his handling of the economy. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/62 "2004-11-04T18:09:05Z")
I guess I’m surprised then. Most of what I had heard on the news was that people thought security was their big concern. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It helps to be rational and skeptical. When conservatives talk about economic issues and national-security issues, even I have to admit that sometimes they have some really good points. But when they talk about matters of morals, values, and culture, they are never right, always wrong. Well that’s your opinion. That certainly does not make it fact. Conservatives feel they should live their lives a certain way - marriage, family, work, kids, church, stay out of jail, lay off the drugs, tough on crime, personal responsibility, etc. I don’t see what is “absolutely wrong” about any of those things. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/63 "2004-11-04T18:16:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Well that’s your opinion. That certainly does not make it fact. Conservatives feel they should live their lives a certain way - marriage, family, work, kids, church, stay out of jail, lay off the drugs, tough on crime, personal responsibility, etc. I don’t see what is “absolutely wrong” about any of those things. Neither does any secular humanist (except for the church thing). Those are not the points of **conflict** between humanists and religious conservatives. If my attitude sounds judgmental and arrogant, it’s because the believers are judgmental and arrogant and I think it’s time we responded in kind. We need to propagate a new meme: Traditional Christianity is not merely foolish, it is **immoral.** ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/64 "2004-11-04T18:18:09Z")
Will Rogers once said, We have had every type of horse thief imaginable for a president and despite their best efforts, not one of them has be able to destroy the country yet. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/65 "2004-11-04T19:45:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > > But when they talk about matters of morals, values, and culture, they are never right, always wrong. > > Conservatives feel they should live their lives a certain way - marriage, family, work, kids, church, stay out of jail, lay off the drugs, tough on crime, personal responsibility, etc. I don’t see what is “absolutely wrong” about any of those things. Yeah, I’m trying to wrap my brain around how conservatives could possibly be “_always_ wrong” about matters of morals, values, and culture: no one should ever work hard, take care of their kids, stay out of jail, take responsibility for themselves, etc.? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/66 "2004-11-04T20:33:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If my attitude sounds judgmental and arrogant, it’s because the believers are judgmental and arrogant and I think it’s time we responded in kind. Choose your enemies well, because every day you will become more and more like them. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/67 "2004-11-04T23:23:06Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > Yeah, I’m trying to wrap my brain around how conservatives could possibly be “_always_ wrong” about matters of morals, values, and culture: no one should ever work hard, take care of their kids, stay out of jail, take responsibility for themselves, etc.? 😕 And which conservatives would these be, exactly? Work hard, I’ll grant you, at least as far as those born poor, brown, or both goes. But the conservatives are the ones undercutting aid for single mothers with dependent children, ensuring they won’t be able to take care of their kids. They were the ones who proposed taking away children from the poor and putting them into vast state orphanages. They’re the ones pushing an elimination of capital gains and inheritance taxes so they can live off family money. Stay out of jail? The conservatives propose long jail sentences for property crimes and drug users. Ashcroft has been pushing to arrest people for viewing pornography and video rental shops that rent out porn. One of your new congressmen wants the death penalty for abortion providers, and Keyes was saying they should be prosecuted as terrorists. Conservatives want many, many more people in prison, not less. Oh, and take responsibility for yourself? You are joking, right? It wasn’t the Shrub’s fault we didn’t find WMDs, Sadaam dun tricked him. All those budget deficits are because of them there liberals who don’t control Congress or the White House. All the jobs lost because Bush wouldn’t enforce treaty provisions against currency fixing in China were Clinton’s fault. And when he was given reports saying that Al Qaida was planning on hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings, it was Clinton’s fault he didn’t read them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849/68 "2004-11-05T00:48:15Z")
> [@laigle](#): > > … it was Clinton’s fault he didn’t read them. He started to, but his lips got tired. OK, last one! I swear! OK, well, I promise to try. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-that-this-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/272849.md?page=3)