# Convince me to risk visiting the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800 "2004-01-05T13:54:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/21 "2004-01-05T18:00:18Z")
I’d diagree that a Briton wouldn’t have anything to worry about entering the United States. After all, two Canadians have already learned that a Canadian passport is no defence against wrongful deportation: [Maher Arar](http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar) was deported to Syria, where he was tortured, rather than to Canada where he is a citizen. Even less explicable is the case of [Berna Cruz](http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/feb/14ajit.htm), who on her way home from visiting family in India, was deported to _Kuwait_ for no apparent reason, when an immigration official, looking at her passport while she was taking a connecting flight, thought it looked “funky.” She was accused of lying on her passport because he didn’t think “Cruz” sounded like an Indian name. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/22 "2004-01-05T18:06:17Z")
> [@](#): > > gum said: > If you’ve got nothing to hide, then what’s the problem? They can check anything they like, as far as I’m concerned. > > If anything can be done to stop terrorists and criminals from entering and leaving countries at will, then that can only be a good thing. “No I’m not smuggling explosives up my anus. You would like to check? Delightful! Anything to stop terrorism, effendi!” ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/23 "2004-01-05T18:18:41Z")
I’d add – and this is strictly anecdotal – that a lot of my friends from other countries have run into _major_ hassles with US immigration in the last few years, especially the ones who happen to be dark-skinned. I believe that there _is_ a certain level of institutionalized racism and paranoia in the system, and it would serve some of these officials right if they lost their jobs as a result of a decline in foreign tourism to the US. That said, I also believe that exposure to people from other cultures is the best way to fight ignorance and prejudice – on both sides. And that my country is well worth visiting. (Where in the US are you thinking of going, by the way?) It’s your call, and I won’t say your concerns are completely unfounded, but it would be a shame to let fear dictate your vacation plans. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/24 "2004-01-05T18:38:12Z")
> [@](#): > > _gluteus maximus_ > Am I the only one who sees no connection between the increased “security and alertness” and the actual absence of terrorist attacks in the U.S. over the past two years? I don’t think I understand this. Are you saying that the lack of terrorism in the US indicates that security is not working? What would you need to see to convince yourself that it is working? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/25 "2004-01-05T18:52:01Z")
It’s quite possible that the 9/11 highjackers slipped through the net due to bureaucratic bungling. I’ve never seen any evidence that curtailing civil rights would have enabled our intelligence agencies to apprehend those people; it appears that they _had_ information but failed to act on it. It’s ironic that the government responds to this SNAFU by _adding_ more and more layers of bureaucracy. They’re trying to close the barn door after the horse got out. Not only that, but it’s the wrong door as well. ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/26 "2004-01-05T19:21:23Z")
What **blowero** said. ---
**Author:** ![Flash-57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/839c29/32.png) [@Flash-57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flash-57)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/27 "2004-01-05T20:21:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bakhesh \ ***From what I can tell, thanks to the US Patriot act, if I visit the US, I basically waive all my human rights. If the government decides I am un-american, then they can lock me up in camp x-ray indefinitely. As a foreigner, they can deny a trial, access to a lawyer etc.** That probably true. So, my recommendation is to behave yourself when you’re here. Treat the place as if you were a visitor in someone else’s house. Besides, I understand that this is true of almost any country. If the local government decides that you are a threat, they can hold you indefinitely with no recourse available to you. > [@](#): > > **Why should I set foot on american soil and take the risk?** You don’t have to. I’m sure that there are many countries in Africa, The Middle East, South America, and Southeast Asia that would more than welcome you to their country and help you to make certain financial arrangements for your eventual safe return. In fact, I just got an email from a nice man in Nigeria who wants me to visit his wonderful country and help him with some financial troubles that he’s having. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/28 "2004-01-05T22:01:21Z")
_posted by CarnalK_ > [@](#): > > “No I’m not smuggling explosives up my anus. You would like to check? Delightful! Anything to stop terrorism, effendi!” Indeed. And when you’re at it, Kadi, look at my piles, will you. [btw: one f in efendi is sufficient.] **blowero** do you think ‘bureaucracy’ is the right word for security measures? I honestly don’t mind getting fingerprinted if it helps to keep people safe and sound. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/29 "2004-01-05T23:06:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _gum said:_ > [btw: one f in efendi is sufficient.] We are speaking English right? For your anal-retentive enjoyment: [effendi](http://www.bartleby.com/61/89/E0048900.html) ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/30 "2004-01-05T23:39:34Z")
Just a warning… use new and fresh socks… they will make you take off your shoes ! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/31 "2004-01-06T00:15:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flash-57 \* > \*\* > Besides, I understand that this is true of almost any country. If the local government decides that you are a threat, they can hold you indefinitely with no recourse available to you. > \*\* That does not make it any less terrible. Now if someone is convicted of a crime with full due process and a fair trial. I think we can all agree holding them for punishment is a different story. It would even be okay to hold them for trial as long as it quick as mentioned in the Bill of Rights. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/32 "2004-01-06T00:34:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _From the OP’s linked article:_ > **But Brazilian Carlos Pimenta, his bags piled high on a cart, complained: "It’s very embarrassing for us. I don’t think it’s appropriate to do this kind of stuff."** Can someone tell me what exactly is so embarassing about getting your fingerprints taken and being asked to empty your pockets? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/33 "2004-01-06T00:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bakhesh \* > \*\*I was considering the US as a holiday destination this year, but your recent bout of insanity has made me think otherwise… > \*\* I like your attitude. You sound like an ok guy who values freedom? If the rest of your opinions are as freedom loving as what you have said in your initial statement, lots of “real americans” will be friendly to you. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/34 "2004-01-06T01:22:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > Can someone tell me what exactly is so embarassing about getting your fingerprints taken and being asked to empty your pockets? I am not going to say whether it is embarraassing or not but even Americans know that any country which would require that from Americans would lose a lot of American tourists so I would say it is as uncomfortable or embarrassing for Americans as it is for anybody else. Most Americans certainly would object seriously if the US government tried to fingerprint them all in the name of security. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/35 "2004-01-06T01:29:24Z")
P.S. I should clarify that I think US VISIT, fingerprints, photos, and all, is a ludicrous program which will expend a ridiculous level of resources without doing much of anything to improve actual security. Fingerprints are useless unless you correlate them with actual intelligence, and I don’t think fingerprints or photos would have done anything to stop 9/11. Besides, US VISIT exempts people who are already visa-exempt, so say you are a UK national who was born in Libya? You aren’t going to be fingerprinted or photographed. There are a lot of potential holes. However, I wouldn’t let much short of a full cavity search deter me from visting anywhere. I had to show a negative AIDS test to go to the USSR. It was crazy, but I did it. But then I’m a little wackier and more adventurous than most. Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/36 "2004-01-06T01:41:59Z")
Just a quick note… don’t know how it is elsewhere… but fingerprinting is usually what you do to arrested criminals. How good is this fingerprinting technology ? Eventually they will have millions of finger prints in their data banks and I suppose they have to act fast on it… no good “recognizing” a terrorist when he has already left the airport. I suppose it has to ID the fingerprint in seconds… seems quite hard no matter what technology you have. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/37 "2004-01-06T02:06:38Z")
Don’t visit the US. Go to oh, Libya instead. Or maybe Bangladesh. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/38 "2004-01-06T04:18:24Z")
Or maybe Canada, Japan, or Australia. ---
**Author:** ![deb2world](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@deb2world](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deb2world)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/39 "2004-01-06T05:40:26Z")
I am a US citizen, never been arrested, never been in any trouble with the law. YET my fingerprint is on file, my photo is there too. Yep to get some document called a “driver license” they fingerprinted me and took my photo (and not a good one at that!). I have been fingerprinted at Home Depot to write a check. So I have some questions that need answering. Do we have a right to keep our fingerprints private? Is it acceptable to give up this possible right to fingerprint privacy to get other rights such as driving a car or writing a check? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800/40 "2004-01-06T06:22:35Z")
**deb** : How is giving a fingerprint any different than being photographed (S.O.P. for getting a driver’s license)? One might easily argue that a photo is **more** intrusive, since it can be used by anyone, without the need for special tools, to ID you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-to-risk-visiting-the-us/222800.md?page=3)