# Convince me which of the following 5 languages is best for me. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585 "2013-12-17T19:11:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/21 "2013-12-18T02:31:49Z")
Arabic and Greek. Arabic because it is so relevant in the world today, and will continue to become more so in the near future. Greek because, hey: Greek. But did you mean Ancient or Modern Greek? But being me, I can’t help suggesting—why not _all_ of them? Start with Arabic, if you have to pick just one. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/22 "2013-12-18T02:35:42Z")
Also, Arabic is interesting, but don’t expect it to win you jobs automatically. It jumped the shark long ago. There was a bit of a crunch after 9/11, as there simply weren’t that many Americans who could both speak Arabic and get a security clearance. But people caught on to that quickly, and now the market is pretty saturated. It’s still useful, of course, but it isn’t a mealticket. I always advise people to keep in mind all those folks who rushed to earn Japanese in the 1980s. If you pick languages to game the job market, you are probably going to be unsuccessful. Instead, look at what is relevant to you- to your field and to the activities you are likely to do and people you are likely to want to communicate with. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/23 "2013-12-18T02:42:18Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > I’ve been procrastinating for years, but it’s finally time to decide which foreign language I’ll take to satisfy a college requirement. I’ve narrowed down my list to the following, and stated my reason for wanting to take each: > [ol] > [li] **French** - I took French in high school and love the language. I intend to travel to France a lot (and perhaps move there) when I’m financially able to do so. I programmed my phone to have French support so I can talk to my European friends. I’m by no means fluent, however, and can barely speak in it (my reading and writing are a lot better). This would be to improve the skills I already have, but there’s little real-world application here other than tourism. No new alphabet to learn (a negative in my book).[/li][li] **Greek** - I’m a big Greek history snob and love the culture and food. I also love the alphabet, to the point that I taught it to myself in the 6th grade. Zero real-world application; this would be for my own fun and enrichment.[/li][li] **Hebrew** - Coming from a partly Jewish family, I have a special identification with this language. New alphabet and there’s something spiritual about it for me.[/li][li] **Russian** - A different alphabet to learn and different way of thinking grammatically. Still partially useful in the real world, though not as much now as during the Cold War. I find Russian culture very interesting, especially their history and governments. Very difficult for native Anglophones to learn.[/li][li] **Arabic** - New alphabet, new grammar, and it’s simply goddamn beautiful to look at. Along with Chinese, probably the most useful language to have in the real world. However, also very difficult to learn and I don’t have as much affinity for the culture as I do the other four.[/ol][/li]Thoughts? I can’t help you decide because I am not really getting a sense of what you want to use this language for beyond satisfying your college requirement. That said, one thing I’d point out about Russian is that the alphabet is basically the first 2 hours of learning Russian - after that, you put it behind you and it stops being an issue. Russian is a tricky language for many reasons but the fact that it has a slightly different alphabet than English is _not_ one of those reasons, so don’t let the Cyrillic stop you. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Incidentally, I’m not even kidding when I say French is the single most marketable skill I know. If you’re not kidding, what _are_ you doing? Being delusional? Willfully supplying false information? > [@even\_sven](#): > > Anyone working with Africa needs to know it The vast majority of people don’t work with Africa. Seriously, almost no one works with Africa. Certainly not sufficient numbers of people to make French ‘the single most marketable skill’ by any stretch of the imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Cerealbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Cerealbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerealbox)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/24 "2013-12-18T02:53:25Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > I can’t help you decide because I am not really getting a sense of what you want to use this language for beyond satisfying your college requirement. That said, one thing I’d point out about Russian is that the alphabet is basically the first 2 hours of learning Russian - after that, you put it behind you and it stops being an issue. Russian is a tricky language for many reasons but the fact that it has a slightly different alphabet than English is _not_ one of those reasons, so don’t let the Cyrillic stop you. > > If you’re not kidding, what _are_ you doing? Being delusional? Willfully supplying false information? > > The vast majority of people don’t work with Africa. Seriously, almost no one works with Africa. Certainly not sufficient numbers of people to make French ‘the single most marketable skill’ by any stretch of the imagination. If you’re going by profitability, I found this article for you: > **[Most Popular Foreign Languages](https://www.forbes.com/2008/02/22/popular-foreign-languages-tech-language_sp08-cx_rr_0222foreign.html)** > > These 10 languages are the most widely studied at American universities. > [@](#): > > In their findings, the law of supply and demand prevailed. With its 1.7% wage premium, Spanish was the least valuable, followed by French (2.7%). Knowledge of German, Italian, Russian and Chinese was slightly more valuable, translating into an average 4% income boost. The problem, it would seem, is that if there’s a lot of people who speak a language (like French), then there are by necessity a lot of competition which drives down your wage premium - not only those people who are native speakers, but everyone else jumping in on the bandwagon. Basically, my guess would be that if you wanted to learn a language for money, you should learn a language no one learns just for fun and thus provides unnecessary competition and also a language in which there are few immigrants to the US (who earn the real wage premium for having learned English) and one with a decent economy. ---
**Author:** ![Cerealbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Cerealbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerealbox)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/25 "2013-12-18T03:05:50Z")
By comparing a map of migrants to the US, a map of English speakers by country, a map of GDP and a map of foreign trade relations with the US, I have come to the conclusion that the best language for an American to learn looks like Arabic followed distantly by Belarusian. And given that people who work in oil and gas make a ton whether they’re accountants or engineers, I’d say Arabic looks like the best language by far. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/26 "2013-12-18T03:17:29Z")
It does come down to what you want, since you crossed practicality off the requirements list. From your list I’d wager that French would treat you best - and possibly be easiest to learn. However, I’ve advised my children to skip the Chinese their schools offer and stick to Spanish. Quite simply, there will be no language more useful than Spanish - other than English - in the US for the next few decades. It’s not a matter of wage impact or anything, just that there’s a growing second language in the country. Hell, just speaking to the guys who I’m planning to have build my house I’m having to break out my rusty Spanish. And that’s here in South Carolina. We’re not exactly a border state, here. And up in Appalachian Ohio - where I lived prior to South Carolina - the Sheriff had to make sure he had at least one Spanish speaking deputy on duty at all times. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/27 "2013-12-18T03:19:30Z")
From your list, definitely French. Off your list, Italian. There are two countries everyone should visit before they die, France and Italy. If you hang on long enough try to hit Germany, Greece, Japan, England and China. If you’ve got way too much time on your hands India, Thailand, Brazil, Korea and a ton of other places are lovely. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/28 "2013-12-18T03:31:28Z")
From your list, I’d join everyone else and say French. Bonus: French was very fashionable in Russia for a few hundred years, and so Russian picked up a little vocabulary from French in case you ever decide to pick it up. More importantly: Pick whichever one you feel like you’re going to be able to devote yourself to, and in which you’re going to have the best chances to actually use it–that’s why I said French. But if you really think you’ll be able to put in the hours on ancient Greek, both learning vocabulary and grammar and then struggling over the texts–then by all means, go for that. If nothing else (based on my own experience, at least) you’ll become hyper-conscious of your English grammar due to constantly thinking about parts of speech. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/29 "2013-12-18T03:36:24Z")
If you go with Hebrew - which, if you’re Jewish, you may already be a little familiar with, from your bar or bat mitzvah - you get a twofer with Arabic. The alphabets look vastly different but seem to have pretty much the same letters (a guttural _ayin_, for example, if I remember correctly), and the grammar seemed to be very similar. I took four semesters of Biblical Hebrew as my language requirement in college - one of the two _goyim_ in the course, although the professor was a Presbyterian from Wisconsin, oddly enough (and an expert in ancient Semitic languages). Just for grits and shins, my study buddy and I took a look at an Arabic grammar, and the language seemed pretty damn similar to what we had been studying. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/30 "2013-12-18T03:37:23Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > If you’re not kidding, what _are_ you doing? Being delusional? Willfully supplying false information? > > The vast majority of people don’t work with Africa. Seriously, almost no one works with Africa. Certainly not sufficient numbers of people to make French ‘the single most marketable skill’ by any stretch of the imagination. It’s definitely not the single most marketable skill in the world for everyone, but for me it definitely is. I do happen to work in a field that does a lot of work with Africa, and French is so in-demand that I’ve had on-the-spot job offers based on little more than being in the field and knowing the French. For someone else, that’s going to be different. French is going to be great for internationally-focused jobs in development, resource management, petroleum, mining, etc. It’s going to be useless for, say, a US-focused software engineer. And that is kind of my point- no language is useless (well, I’ll stick by Mandarin being pretty close to that) and no language is an instant resume-builder. It’s all about your field. For the statistic above, I would imagine a lot of the French and Spanish speakers are people who half-assed it through their required foreign language classes and do work that has nothing to do with it, whereas people who make the effort to learn a more exotic language probably have a pretty specific career goal or other specialized reason to learn it, which will be reflected in their earnings. Ultimately, profitability is an intersection between supply and demand, but also opportunity. There are a lot of Spanish speakers and a lot of opportunities for Spanish speakers in jobs on all skill levels, so it’s a reliable way to get a small boost. In the meantime there are very few Urdu speakers and some solid demand for it, but at the same time those jobs are concentrated in one field and tend to be highly skilled, so it’s not like anyone can just go learn Urdu and wait for the big bucks to roll in. It’s all about what you, specifically, are going to do with the language. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/31 "2013-12-18T03:56:12Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > If you go with Hebrew - which, if you’re Jewish, you may already be a little familiar with, from your bar or bat mitzvah - you get a twofer with Arabic. The alphabets look vastly different but seem to have pretty much the same letters (a guttural _ayin_, for example, if I remember correctly), and the grammar seemed to be very similar. I took four semesters of Biblical Hebrew as my language requirement in college - one of the two _goyim_ in the course, although the professor was a Presbyterian from Wisconsin, oddly enough (and an expert in ancient Semitic languages). Just for grits and shins, my study buddy and I took a look at an Arabic grammar, and the language seemed pretty damn similar to what we had been studying. The Hebrew, Arabic, and Greek (and Roman) alphabets all derive from the same source. and Arabic and Hebrew are both Semitic languages, and share some vocabulary and grammar. Both those languages are written without the vowels. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/32 "2013-12-18T14:53:39Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > my study buddy and I took a look at an Arabic grammar, and the language seemed pretty damn similar to what we had been studying. I studied Arabic and Hebrew concurrently, and found that the grammar is so similar, learning one gives a great big boost to learning the other. Also, the differences between them sort out into regular sets of correspondences, which again is helpful for learning. In fact, when Hebrew grammarians first set out to describe Hebrew grammar systematically, they cribbed it all off of Arabic grammar books. So that some of the Hebrew verb paradigms make more sense in Arabic than they do in Hebrew—another good reason for learning the two languages in tandem. If you learn Arabic grammar, it will actually make Hebrew grammar easier to understand. As for the difference between literary/Classical/Modern Standard Arabic and the divergent spoken vernaculars, yes, there’s a big difference. Still, that’s no reason not to learn Modern Standard Arabic, because throughout the Arabic-speaking world essentially all written materials—books, newspapers, scientific journals, schooling, everything—is in MSA, and Arabs who natively speak mutually incomprehensible vernaculars often depend on MSA for speaking to one another, and if you’re a foreign learner of Arabic, they of course understand you studied MSA and can accommodate you. Further, knowing Arabic all at once opens a window into many, many languages across Asia and Africa that have extensively borrowed Arabic vocabulary. So MSA _is_ very relevant and useful in today’s world. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/33 "2013-12-18T14:59:43Z")
For Greek, I was originally thinking modern Greek, but Ancient Greek sounds even better, given my history interests. I’m fairly well-versed in the Greek alphabet, and enjoy doing some rudimentary translating some of the writings/carvings on Ancient Greek art. Still undecided, however. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/34 "2013-12-18T15:14:37Z")
My own choice back in the stone age was between French or German only: we were required to pass an exam proving our reading prowess (the idea was being able to consult trade literature in those languages, not to be able to produce it). I chose German because, since I already could guess-read French quite nicely, I figured a year of German would be more… informative, would make a bigger difference in how much information I could process, than a year of French. Turns out I enventually took the French exam because the German lessons had been terribly unsatisfactory, but that’s a different issue. You say you don’t really care about marketability, so my question is: which one do you think you’re more likely to use once the class is over? Which one are you more interested in being able to watch movies in, to read books in? You want to visit France. Which other countries do you want to visit? For whatever kind of jobs you’re likely to get with the degree you’re working on, which countries may they take you to? ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/35 "2013-12-18T16:23:05Z")
Here’s the thing: I’m guessing that your language requirement is something like 4 semesters with at least a C- in each class. Depending on your tuition rates, a three-credit class could easily run you a thousand bucks or more. I also presume you’re allowed to test out of some or all of the requirement, and if you took French in high school, you have a decent shot. That’s free money right there. If you _don’t_ test out, then I’d say you should still stick with French, because your previous experience will give you the best chance at getting a passing grade, and will allow you to devote more of your time and energy to the courses in your major. French is your safest bet in terms of cost, time, and GPA. Once you complete the requirement, if you find that learning languages is fun and easy, then go ahead and take another one (or two, or three) to round out your schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/36 "2013-12-18T17:11:18Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Here’s the thing: I’m guessing that your language requirement is something like 4 semesters with at least a C- in each class. Depending on your tuition rates, a three-credit class could easily run you a thousand bucks or more. I also presume you’re allowed to test out of some or all of the requirement, and if you took French in high school, you have a decent shot. That’s free money right there. If you _don’t_ test out, then I’d say you should still stick with French, because your previous experience will give you the best chance at getting a passing grade, and will allow you to devote more of your time and energy to the courses in your major. French is your safest bet in terms of cost, time, and GPA. Once you complete the requirement, if you find that learning languages is fun and easy, then go ahead and take another one (or two, or three) to round out your schedule. Not to devalue your post, but who ever said learning languages was easy? I’ve heard the opposite from almost everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/37 "2013-12-18T18:08:57Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Not to devalue your post, but who ever said learning languages was easy? I’ve heard the opposite from almost everyone. I think you misread me; I said, “… **if** you find that learning languages is fun and easy…” Because you’re correct, for most people, it’s neither. And that’s exactly why I’m suggesting that if your primary reason for studying a language is to fulfill the requirement, you should make it as easy on yourself as possible. Then, _if_ it turns out that learning languages is something you enjoy, you can go ahead and take Greek or whatever. But as you say, it’s more likely that you _won’t_ particularly enjoy it, and you’ll be glad that you had at least some previous experience to help you along. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/38 "2013-12-18T18:22:32Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I think you misread me; I said, “… **if** you find that learning languages is fun and easy…” Because you’re correct, for most people, it’s neither. And that’s exactly why I’m suggesting that if your primary reason for studying a language is to fulfill the requirement, you should make it as easy on yourself as possible. Then, _if_ it turns out that learning languages is something you enjoy, you can go ahead and take Greek or whatever. But as you say, it’s more likely that you _won’t_ particularly enjoy it, and you’ll be glad that you had at least some previous experience to help you along. Oh, my mistake! I guess I should start working on my English reading comprehension before I try a different language. :o Thanks very much for your advice. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/39 "2013-12-18T23:20:44Z")
I have studied Russian extensively (but a long time ago) and it is not difficult for an Anglophone to learn. The pronunciation is no harder than French (and a lot closer to what’s printed on the page than French, IMO). Also there is a lot of Russian literature out there which really is different in the original than it is in translation. Having said that, if it were me it would be French hands down. I love the idea of it, and there are a lot of French expressions in English literature that I’ve always wanted to understand better. I still might go out and study French for my own pleasure. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585/40 "2013-12-18T23:40:32Z")
It seems you’ve listed them in your order of preference. Thus I’d say French. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-me-which-of-the-following-5-languages-is-best-for-me/676585.md?page=3)