# Convince my conservative dad to dislike GWB **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 17, 2007, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315 "2007-03-17T07:15:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/161 "2007-03-20T01:22:25Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] While the partisan tendency to support ones own in the face of evidence of incompetence sufficient to cause those unaffiliated to become disgusted does lean more heavily on Republicans overall, this particular Rovian era has exaggerated it far beyond any historic norm. It honestly scares me. [/QUOTE] Do the words “Cult of Personality” (with all their attendant negative connotations) mean anything to you? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/162 "2007-03-20T01:26:56Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] “Your protected. So shut up.” [/QUOTE] Your protected what? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/163 "2007-03-20T01:29:14Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] **Cardinal** , **Sam** is on target. It really depends what kind of conservative your Dad is. Did he do right by the libertaian side? Nope. Many intrusions into our personal spaces. The fiscal conservatives? Nope. A spendthrift. The neocons? Well he followed their playbook and proved how wrongheaded that playbook is. The Religious Right? I do not think that they feel that the Supremes they got were hardline enough or that they got enough out of him either. The Big Tenters? He has fractured what looked like a Republican lock on Congress that would last forever. They are now as splintered as the Dems have always been. He has failed _as a Conservative_ on every count. Except maybe protecting the interests of Big Business. And that is highly debatable. “Has he done anything right _from a Conservative POV_?” is the discussion that you want to have with your Dad, not what I or anyone else from the center or points left of it disrespect him for. [/QUOTE] Also defense. Remember when Conservatives were on the side of a strong national defense? Well, [Bush fouled that up too.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/18/AR2007031801534.html) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/164 "2007-03-20T01:58:48Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Your protected what? [/QUOTE] I know - isn’t that beautiful? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/165 "2007-03-20T13:46:13Z")
A Bush-bashing thread. How refreshing. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/166 "2007-03-20T13:53:12Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] A Bush-bashing thread. How refreshing. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] A Bush-bashing thread bashing. How predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/167 "2007-03-20T13:58:35Z")
No backs. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/168 "2007-03-20T14:01:48Z")
How refreshing. A post devoid of any content. Now a comment explaining why there is such a clear break with history, why Republicans are left so alone in approving of this obviously compentent President, why so many independents have been fooled into seeing him as incompentent along with the partisan Democrats, much more so even than for previous unpopular Republican administrations, that would be content. Please explain why those unafiliated voters, many who voted for Bush twice, are now, along with the Dems, stupid well beyond any historic norm leaving only Republicans in unprecedented sole possession of the realization of how wonderful of a job Bush is doing. Regards to you too. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/169 "2007-03-20T14:39:22Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] How refreshing. A post devoid of any content. [/QUOTE] Don’t complain, it could have been full of his usual content. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/170 "2007-03-20T14:55:01Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] No backs. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] I gotta admit, I don’t understand this one. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/171 "2007-03-20T15:33:04Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I gotta admit, I don’t understand this one. [/QUOTE] It’s grade school terminology. Imagine that. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/172 "2007-03-20T15:54:45Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] A Bush-bashing thread. How refreshing. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] What’s wrong with bashing Bush? He’s a terrible President. What should we do, praise him? The OP was looking for possible arguments to convince his Dad of Bush’s overall crappiness. That’s what we’re trying to give him (At least before the thread was sidetracked.) What did you think the thread was going to be about. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/173 "2007-03-20T16:06:35Z")
Related: Kucinich is calling for the impeachment of W. I know the idea of “the illegal war”, but what seriously would be the best bet for an impeachable offense? I know that Ford said that “high crimes and misdemeanors” are whatever the House says they are, but is there something that’s spot on, on-the-books illegal that Bush can be personally tied to, like perjury for Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/174 "2007-03-20T16:12:41Z")
[QUOTE=Cardinal] Related: Kucinich is calling for the impeachment of W. I know the idea of “the illegal war”, but what seriously would be the best bet for an impeachable offense? I know that Ford said that “high crimes and misdemeanors” are whatever the House says they are, but is there something that’s spot on, on-the-books illegal that Bush can be personally tied to, like perjury for Clinton? [/QUOTE] The US Attorney thing has the earmarks, in some cases, of obstruction of justice. I’m fairly sure that, barring a resignation in the next few weeks, Gonzales, at least, will find himself up against The Big “I”. Whether Congress can winkle anything incriminating out of this administration’s concrete wall of secrecy that could take it higher is a crapshoot, though. In reference to which, I just found out from the liberal blogs this morning something I did not know…neither Bush nor Gonzales use e-mail for internal communications. Probably for exactly this reason. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/175 "2007-03-20T18:14:39Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] What’s wrong with bashing Bush? [/quote] The first forty-five thousand times? Nothing. > [@](#): > > What did you think the thread was going to be about. The same thing every political thread is about on the SDMB - unfortunately. I realize you folks never tire of the endless, circular, repetitious channeling of that voice that seems to be whispering in some posters ears. You’ll have to pardon me if I pop in occasionally and interrupt it. And if you don’t want to, oh well. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/176 "2007-03-20T18:36:33Z")
[QUOTE=Cardinal] Related: Kucinich is calling for the impeachment of W. I know the idea of “the illegal war”, but what seriously would be the best bet for an impeachable offense? I know that Ford said that “high crimes and misdemeanors” are whatever the House says they are, but is there something that’s spot on, on-the-books illegal that Bush can be personally tied to, like perjury for Clinton? [/QUOTE] The argument I like is that the State Of The Union speech is a constitutionally required duty of the President. If Bush deliberately conveyed information to Congress that he knew to be false (e.g., the infamous “16 words”), then he has violated his oath of office and his constitutional duties. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/177 "2007-03-20T19:59:38Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] You’ll have to pardon me [/QUOTE] Scooter first. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/178 "2007-03-21T01:12:16Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] The first forty-five thousand times? Nothing. The same thing every political thread is about on the SDMB - unfortunately. I realize you folks never tire of the endless, circular, repetitious channeling of that voice that seems to be whispering in some posters ears. You’ll have to pardon me if I pop in occasionally and interrupt it. And if you don’t want to, oh well. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] The OP–who, IIRC, is a moderate conservative himself–asked for specific arguments to make to his Dad about why Bush is bad. Saying “It’s been done” wouldn’t be that helpful to him. I can’t speak for other posters, but there ain’t no voices in my ears. Just the accumulation of awful facts. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/179 "2007-03-22T17:34:55Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] The argument I like is that the State Of The Union speech is a constitutionally required duty of the President. If Bush deliberately conveyed information to Congress that he knew to be false (e.g., the infamous “16 words”), then he has violated his oath of office and his constitutional duties. [/QUOTE] Good luck with that. The sixteen words you mention are literally true. I realize that “high crimes and misdemeanors” can mean whatever Congress says, but then the Dems will have to deal with the fall out of “lying under oath is OK, but saying the truth, not under oath, is a crime.” And not even with a lot of “that depends on what the meaning of is, is”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315/180 "2007-03-22T17:47:43Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] I realize that “high crimes and misdemeanors” can mean whatever Congress says, but then the Dems will have to deal with the fall out of “lying under oath is OK, but saying the truth, not under oath, is a crime.” [/QUOTE] So what you are saying is, if Clinton was guilty so is Bush? I agree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convince-my-conservative-dad-to-dislike-gwb/396315.md?page=10)