# Convincing acquaintances, friends, and family to get vaccinated **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [August 7, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172 "2021-08-07T00:41:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/61 "2021-08-16T01:44:26Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Got six and one-half minutes ? Feeling the sort of Pollyanna-ish that makes you think you’re just one reasonable strategy from _really_ being able to engage with Old Uncle Joe about this ? Not really. It’s always better for me to have this stuff in writing. Not a big fan of the “all information must come from video” paradigm. Can you tell us what she said? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/62 "2021-08-16T02:05:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > […] a relevant metaphor (and a possible argument to use on anti-vaxxers) from an ancient Jewish sage, [Shimon bar Yochai - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimon_bar_Yochai) (c. 70 CE). > > > R. Shimon bar Yochai taught: > > > > This may be likened to people on a ship, one of whom took a borer and began boring beneath their own place. The others said to them: “What are you doing?” They said in response: “What does that matter to you? I’m boring under my own place!” Said they: “Because the water will come up and flood the ship for us all." OTOH, **[Shimon Bar Sinister](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Underdog_characters#Simon_Bar_Sinister)**, that ancient sage of the anti-vaxxers taught: > Drill Baby Drill! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/63 "2021-08-16T19:18:11Z")
Thank you for being part of the control group in this experiment. It’s often hard to find volunteers to be part of this group, as they know that they are not going to receive cutting edge treatment. Often, as in this case, the members of the control group suffer increased disease and even death. Your contribution and sacrifice is noted and appreciated. The experiment is now concluded with literally billions of data points. You may now take advantage of the knowledge gained, and get yourself immunized. ---
**Author:** ![shh1313](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shh1313/32/8020_2.png) [@shh1313](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shh1313)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/64 "2021-08-16T20:51:38Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Thank you for being part of the control group in this experiment. It’s often hard to find volunteers to be part of this group, as they know that they are not going to receive cutting edge treatment. > > Often, as in this case, the members of the control group suffer increased disease and even death. Your contribution and sacrifice is noted and appreciated. > > The experiment is now concluded with literally billions of data points. You may now take advantage of the knowledge gained, and get yourself immunized. Not that it any of your business. Wrong you are. My opinion was what I think about ‘why’ the hardcore unvaccinated people don’t get vaccinated. I do not appreciate the guessing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/65 "2021-08-16T21:03:00Z")
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say - other than doing a Yoda impersonation. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/66 "2021-08-16T21:11:34Z")
I think she was trying to be droll when she referred to it as the “experimental vaccine”. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/67 "2021-08-16T21:45:10Z")
We do not suffer drolls lightly. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/68 "2021-08-17T04:04:59Z")
I just sent my sister a hundred bucks for getting the second jab. Money seems to work with some folks. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/69 "2021-08-17T04:47:57Z")
Congrats! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/70 "2021-08-19T16:02:10Z")
This could be an incentive. > **[An Alabama doctor watched patients reject the coronavirus vaccine. Now he’s...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/18/alabama-doctor-unvaccinated-patients-valentine/)** > > Jason Valentine, a physician in Mobile, Ala., announced he will not see unvaccinated patients starting Oct. 1: “If they asked why, I told them covid is a miserable way to die and I can’t watch them die like that.” The whole headline: **An Alabama doctor watched patients reject the coronavirus vaccine. Now he’s refusing to treat them.** > In Alabama, where the nation’s lowest vaccination rate has helped push the state closer to a record number of hospitalizations, a physician has sent a clear message to his patients: Don’t come in for medical treatment if you are unvaccinated. > > Jason Valentine, a physician at Diagnostic and Medical Clinic Infirmary Health in Mobile, Ala., posted a photo on Facebook this week of him pointing to a sign taped to a door informing patients of his new policy coming Oct. 1. > > “Dr. Valentine will no longer see patients that are not vaccinated against covid-19,” the sign reads. > > Valentine wrote in the post, which has since been made private but was captured in online images, that there were “no conspiracy theories, no excuses” stopping anyone from being vaccinated, [AL.com](https://www.al.com/news/2021/08/alabama-doctor-says-he-wont-treat-unvaccinated-people-covid-is-miserable-way-to-die.html) reported. The doctor, who said at least three unvaccinated patients have asked him where they could get a vaccine since he posted the photo, has remained resolute to those who have questioned his decision in recent days. > > “If they asked why, I told them covid is a miserable way to die and I can’t watch them die like that,” wrote Valentine, who has specialized in family medicine with Diagnostic and Medical Clinic [since 2008](https://diagnosticandmedical.com/physicians/bio/r-jason-valentine-m.d). > … I’m sure many will say this is unethical, but I can’t blame the guy. My late husband received a kidney transplant August 2, 1992. The transplant patient group (those waiting and those who were post-transplant) were a pretty cozy group. One guy had gotten a transplant from a living donor, his brother. But he screwed around and didn’t take care of himself and that transplant failed. The docs took him off the list for a future transplant – not for strictly medical reasons, but for irresponsible behavior. I think there are times when consciously, blatantly irresponsible behavior _should_ disqualify you from medical treatment. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/71 "2021-08-19T17:32:14Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I think there are times when consciously, blatantly irresponsible behavior _should_ disqualify you from medical treatment. From taking an extremely scarce resource (like a kidney) from others – sure. From routine treatment? Honestly, I have problems with that. Where does it end? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/72 "2021-08-19T17:36:38Z")
The scarcity principle can apply even in “routine treatment.” For one thing, a doctor’s time is not an endless resource. That’s why there’s triage. I don’t think “Where does it end?” is a useful question here. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/73 "2021-08-19T17:47:02Z")
My employer (over 100,000 employees worldwide) just announced yesterday that they were requiring all employees and contract employees to either show proof of vaccination by Sept. 30, or submit to twice weekly covid testing. Not forcing them to get the jab but just making it reaaally inconvenient for them not to get it. Good call! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/74 "2021-08-19T17:59:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > One guy had gotten a transplant from a living donor, his brother. But he screwed around and didn’t take care of himself and that transplant failed. I kinda agree with your sentiments but I’m curious about what he did that made his new kidney fail. Fail to take the immune suppression meds, get dehydrated or what. A liver transplant I could see a number of ways, but kidneys? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/75 "2021-08-19T18:28:52Z")
It was over 30 years ago and even at the time I wasn’t privy to all the details. Sorry. IDK. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/76 "2021-08-19T18:36:16Z")
Read this in the comments section of a [HuffPost article](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fundamentalist-christian-covid-vaccine_n_611cf3ece4b0ff60bf7bbd50) about talking to anti-vaxxers: > “If you don’t need a mask or a vaccine because God will protect you, then why do you need a gun?” Ba-da-_bing!_ ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/77 "2021-08-19T19:17:11Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > From taking an extremely scarce resource (like a kidney) from others – sure. From routine treatment? Honestly, I have problems with that. Where does it end? Nobody is being forced to go without medical care because this doctor made this choice. There are many medical offices that don’t mask and doctors who don’t care, they can go to an office that is more accepting of their bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/78 "2021-08-19T19:22:21Z")
I’m not a fan of pharmacists being allowed to point a woman to a different pharmacy for the ‘morning after pill’ because the first pharmacist objects to its use on ‘religious grounds.’ Neither am I a fan of a florist, baker, wedding photographer, etc., etc., being able to turn away customers because of their status as a protected class. “Go somewhere else” was the answer for decades, and threatens to be the answer again. San Diego firefighters – often tasked to appear in endless parades of all kinds – were quitting rather than follow orders to appear in a gay pride parade. Do first responders really get to make this kind of call ? This one’s not sitting all that well with me. It does have significant potential for blowback. ETA: and, last Saturday, I lost an old and dear friend to COVID at age 58. I have to assume that she (and her husband) decided against getting the vaccine. I’m as sick of these Refusniks as anybody. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/79 "2021-08-19T22:35:57Z")
My S-I-L, a pediatrician, and her practice stopped accepting any new patient whose parents won’t vaccinate (routine childhood vaccinations, not covid). This decision was made after an unvaccinated child died of whooping cough. Most new parents have agreed to go along with it. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172/80 "2021-08-19T22:41:06Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Neither am I a fan of a florist, baker, wedding photographer, etc., etc., being able to turn away customers because of their status as a protected class. But businesses who turn away customers who are in protected classes are in violation of the law. (And the SCOTUS _Master Cakes_ case did not establish otherwise.) “Unvaccinated” is not a protected class. A patient could claim their religious beliefs prohibit vaccination, but since Dr. Valentine is denying service to ALL unvaccinated people, the refusal is not based on that patient’s status as a member of a protected class. If a restaurant denies entry to any customer not wearing shoes, it’s not religious discrimination if someone whose religious beliefs prohibit wearing shoes is not admitted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/convincing-acquaintances-friends-and-family-to-get-vaccinated/948172.md?page=5)