# Coolest Battleships / Battleship Designs **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 5, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817 "2009-06-05T14:00:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/41 "2009-06-12T01:51:12Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > From the Super Yamato link: > > 100 mm (3.9 in)/65 caliber guns > > A 50 caliber machine guns are .50 inches. 45 caliber is .45 inches. > What is the relation between 3.9 inches and 65 caliber? The /65 means that the gun length is 65 times the caliber, or 6500 mm. That’s over 21 feet long. I don’t know if this refers to just the barrel length or the entire gun. The Iowas main guns were 16"/50 which is 800 inches, or 66.667 feet! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/42 "2009-06-12T02:02:26Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > The /65 means that the gun length is 65 times the caliber, or 6500 mm. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/43 "2009-06-12T02:59:31Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > I’d give props to the [Nelson Class](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/HMS_Nelson_%281931%29_profile_drawing.png) battleship, designed to cleverly circumvent the Washington Treaty rules. Considering how much the battleships of the time looked alike, this one was as radical as radical gets. Hence, cool. Given that this is the “IMHO” forum, I’ll come right out and say that clever had nothing to do with it. They were slow, damaged themselves almost as much as the enemy when firing a broadside, tended to be pushed off course by the wind acting on the “sail”, and were butt-ugly to boot. The Richelius did the all-forward main battery much more effectively and were 7 knots faster. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/44 "2009-06-12T03:19:54Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > And from memory I think HMS Renown was the only battle cruiser that started WW2 and survived above the waves It was renown before that. _badum tsh_ ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/45 "2009-06-12T03:56:55Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Given that this is the “IMHO” forum, I’ll come right out and say that clever had nothing to do with it. They were slow, damaged themselves almost as much as the enemy when firing a broadside, tended to be pushed off course by the wind acting on the “sail”, and were butt-ugly to boot. The Richelius did the all-forward main battery much more effectively and were 7 knots faster. Four points: a) the Richelieus were over the Washington Treaty limit, something the Nelsons avoided; b) you’re exaggerating a number of the downsides (the self-damage appears to be apocryphal); c) I personally think they look quite clean and interesting, not ugly at all; d) we said cool, not brilliant. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/46 "2009-06-12T04:09:06Z")
I’ve always liked the South Dakotas. I mean here are some ships that are nearly as capable as the Iowas and yet were put out on about 25% less displacement. They had 16" guns and the 20 5" guns, the same belt armor, and the same 3cm radar fire control systems. Obviously the real drawback was speed being about 27 knots to the Iowas’ 33-34. To me this was one of the great engineering feats of the time. Take a ship and make something like this on a (nominally) 35,000 ton displacement? That is a piece of engineering. Nothing like having an artificial limit imposed on you to get the creative juices flowing. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/47 "2009-06-12T15:57:45Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > I’d give props to the [Nelson Class](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/HMS_Nelson_%281931%29_profile_drawing.png) battleship, designed to cleverly circumvent the Washington Treaty rules. Considering how much the battleships of the time looked alike, this one was as radical as radical gets. Hence, cool. One of the two _Nelson_ class BBs (I think it was _Rodney_) hods an unusal distinction. Since the Nelsons could elevate their main batteries much higher than normal (40 degrees iirc), a design feature to take advantage of plunging fire against weaker deck armors, the _Rodney_ (I _think_ it was her) was able to elevate and fire the 16-inch main battery at approaching Italian aircraft. They didn’t get any hits. But after the 16-inch freight trains bored through the middle of the squadron, the Italian pilots understandably diverted to a different objective. IIRC that’s the largest-caliber shells ever fired at aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Nuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea666f/32.png) [@Nuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nuke)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/48 "2009-06-12T16:05:30Z")
I always thought the Fuso was pretty cool looking with the pagoda forecastle > **[Japanese battleship Fusō](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Fuso)** > > Fusō (扶桑, a classical name for Japan) was the lead ship of the two Fusō-class dreadnought battleships built for the Imperial Japanese Navy. Launched in 1914 and commissioned in 1915, she initially patrolled off the coast of China, playing no part in World War I. In 1923, she assisted survivors of the Great Kantō earthquake. > Fusō was modernized in 1930–1935 and again in 1937–1941, with improvements to her armor and propulsion machinery and a rebuilt superstructure in the pagoda mast style. Wit... ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/49 "2009-06-12T18:31:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > From the Super Yamato link: > > 100 mm (3.9 in)/65 caliber guns > > A 50 caliber machine guns are .50 inches. 45 caliber is .45 inches. > What is the relation between 3.9 inches and 65 caliber? For battleships, caliber means length of gun barrel, as a multiple of the bore. 100mm (bore) \* 65 (caliber) = a 100 mm gun with a barrel length of 6500mm. Why does barrel length matter? Generally speaking, a longer barrel will mean a higher muzzle velocity (assuming you are using the same propellent charge), which translates to greater range, accuracy, and penetrating power. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/50 "2009-06-12T18:33:17Z")
> [@Bartman](#): > > I’ve always liked the South Dakotas. I mean here are some ships that are nearly as capable as the Iowas and yet were put out on about 25% less displacement. They had 16" guns and the 20 5" guns, the same belt armor, and the same 3cm radar fire control systems. Obviously the real drawback was speed being about 27 knots to the Iowas’ 33-34. > > To me this was one of the great engineering feats of the time. Take a ship and make something like this on a (nominally) 35,000 ton displacement? That is a piece of engineering. Nothing like having an artificial limit imposed on you to get the creative juices flowing. One of the trade offs for having a lighter displacement was that they were a bit cramped (by American standards), if I remember correctly. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyFrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@JerseyFrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyFrank)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/51 "2009-06-12T19:43:29Z")
The coolest battleship I ever worked with was a stealthy one. By the book, it didn’t really offer much in way of movement; but under the command of those that scoffed at those rules, it could silently move about the ocean. Opponents everywhere would be stunned when they learned that despite hitting the target a first time, nary another nearby shot would land. Alas, it only took 4 shots before she’d sink. The most famous sinking occurred under the leadership of [Milton Bradley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Bradley) who will forever be remembered for exclaiming to his foe, “[You sank my battleship](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=you%20sunk%20my%20battleship)!” ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/52 "2009-06-12T19:55:59Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I always thought the [Yamato](http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g700000/g704702.jpg) was the best looking, as well as the biggest. That Yamato, or [This one](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mmBw3uzPnJI/Sd9qdNsrnxI/AAAAAAAAkT4/caxF8UI_f6U/s1600-h/lego_battleship_yamato_05.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/53 "2009-06-13T00:42:19Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > I’d give props to the [Nelson Class](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/HMS_Nelson_%281931%29_profile_drawing.png) battleship, designed to cleverly circumvent the Washington Treaty rules. Considering how much the battleships of the time looked alike, this one was as radical as radical gets. Hence, cool. Indeed! Gorgeous ladies. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/54 "2009-06-13T01:05:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > [The Massena](http://www.cityofart.net/bship/massena.html), for being so mind-numbingly ugly. Pure steampunk nightmare fuel. > > I love the pre-dreadnoughts, particularly the French ones. Their designers clearly had no idea what they were doing, so they let their imaginations run wild. Damn, The Massena is wonderfully ugly! Not being a true Battleship Buff, I’ll just vote for our own [Battleship Texas.](http://www.cityofart.net/bship/uss_tx_1914.html) She’s now located at the San Jacinto Battlefield, so the historically ignorant can see why Sam Houston beat Santa Anna! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/55 "2009-06-13T01:23:25Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > That Yamato, or [This one](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mmBw3uzPnJI/Sd9qdNsrnxI/AAAAAAAAkT4/caxF8UI_f6U/s1600-h/lego_battleship_yamato_05.jpg)? :smack: I completely forgot about the battleship YaLego. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/56 "2009-06-13T01:27:22Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > One of the two _Nelson_ class BBs (I think it was _Rodney_) hods an unusal distinction. Since the Nelsons could elevate their main batteries much higher than normal (40 degrees iirc), a design feature to take advantage of plunging fire against weaker deck armors, the _Rodney_ (I _think_ it was her) was able to elevate and fire the 16-inch main battery at approaching Italian aircraft. > … > > IIRC that’s the largest-caliber shells ever fired at aircraft. Not true. The Yamato fired her main batteries at attacking torpedo bombers. They were apparently not trying for direct hits, but to raise huge pillars of water in front of the planes for them to crash into. Didn’t work, and she was sunk in her one and only battle. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/57 "2009-06-13T01:42:10Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Damn, The Massena is wonderfully ugly! Who were the French expecting to fight in 1898,? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/58 "2009-06-13T02:04:58Z")
From the “Get A Bigger Hammer” school-of-thought: does [this](http://www.adams-wallpapers.com/data/media/20/super-star-destroyer-wallpaper.jpg) count? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/59 "2009-06-13T03:31:00Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Not true. The Yamato fired her main batteries at attacking torpedo bombers. They were apparently not trying for direct hits, but to raise huge pillars of water in front of the planes for them to crash into. Didn’t work, and she was sunk in her one and only battle. Yamato’s 18-inch guns were equipped with “beehive” anti-aircraft shells; those were in fact what Yamato was trying to use. Yamato had also participated in a battle in 1944 and was involved in a fairly serious battle a few weeks before being destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817/60 "2009-06-13T03:57:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Yamato’s 18-inch guns were equipped with “beehive” anti-aircraft shells; Is that some sort of shrapnel ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-battleships-battleship-designs/498817.md?page=4)