# Coolest Winter Since 2001+US oil reserves+Middle east Apocalypse=NO GAS IN 3 YEARS **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504 "2008-06-10T22:16:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/1 "2008-06-10T22:16:04Z")
These are the conclusions backed up by cites that follow and then, don’t panic, there exists a way out of the forest at the end of this post. 1.The climate is changing and has changed and will continue to change and has been no big deal! 2.Americas strength has laid and still lies in ruthless exploitation of its natural resources and highly skilled workforce and individual adaptability. 3.The environmentalist movement and the laziness of the ‘doom’ generation and hate mongering has hobbled and is hobbling the US from directing our representatives to take appropriate action. 4.The public is at information overload resulting in emotional panicky behavior and disjunct messages being conveyed to our government policy makers. 5.Globalization and issue complexity and murkiness of thought is a direct result of the Internet and information age and one line posts. 6.Big international oil are perceived, due to large dollar profits, to be in control but they are not. The profits are had by reducing shipping costs of final gas product and not the crude. Likewise the OPEC is vertically integrating to retain more of the profits and will withhold crude from markets to feed their refineries. 7.Even in the US the national oil companies control the oil reserves but due to their lack of capitalization and environmental regulation they cannot develop these resources. 8.Much of the national oil companies control was gained by the collapse of ENRON a problem in the making during the 90’s 9.Reducing profits of Big international oil by taxation only reduces capital and does not address the real problems of crude supply, weak dollar, and government excise taxes and national oil companies. 10.Mexico’s precipitous drop in oil production by their national oil company will cause untold hardships south of the border and thank God we have NAFTA to prop up Mexico. 11.Ethanol can’t replace gasoline and only increases food prices and has been the biggest hoodwink of the American consumer by environmentalists to date. I am waiting for the AGW cap and trade shoe to drop and the resulting collapse of the American economy and 45 M households in bankruptcy to be the next one unless people get their collective heads screwed on correctly 12.The United States to supply its entire demand of 21 million barrels per day (3.3×106 m3/d) without resorting to foreign imports, existing US reserves would last only three years. 13.Environmentalists will scream holy terror if any of these reserves are developed! **Oh what to do? When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout, NOT. See end of post for the answer.** > [@](#): > > That’s a fine Howdy Doo for a world being driven to ruin by man-made global warming. Here we are deep into the Apocalypse, and we’re still suffering cooling relapses. [http://strongasanoxandnearlyassmart.blogspot.com/2008/03/coolest-winter-since-2001.html](http://strongasanoxandnearlyassmart.blogspot.com/2008/03/coolest-winter-since-2001.html) [http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2008/20080313\_coolest.html](http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2008/20080313_coolest.html) > [@](#): > > Mark Cooper: Well, there’s really two parts to that story, what big oil has or hasn’t done and what ethanol can do. Over the last 10 years, 20 years actually, we’ve suffered a terrible shortage of refineries and everyone knows it. [http://www.eenews.net/tv/transcript/653](http://www.eenews.net/tv/transcript/653) Bullshit! > [@](#): > > why the majors aren’t drilling like crazy. They’re being shut out from all the best spots by NOCs (National Oil Companies), war and fiscal instability/disincentives. Intellectually dishonest soundbite-peddlers like Deffeyes continue to pretend that the only oil companies in the world are the “majors” (IOCs, International Oil Companies like BP, ExxonMobil etc.) – conveniently ignoring the key fact that the majors are actually bit players, and the NOCs control 77% of the world’s oil resources > … > The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, the cartel that controls 40 per cent of the world’s oil supplies, plans to increase its refining capacity by almost 6m barrels a day, or 50%, in the next seven years [http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/2006/03/254-refinery-building-boom-in-middle.html](http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/2006/03/254-refinery-building-boom-in-middle.html) > [@](#): > > International oil firms also worry that their government-sponsored competitors receive unfair advantages. During the bidding war over Unocal, for instance, Chevron complained Cnooc could offer more money because the Chinese government was helping finance the bid by providing low- and no-interest loans. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080201978\_2.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080201978_2.html) The US can’t secure a reliable source of oil in the current world environment and can’t win biding wars and there ain’t enough oil to go around anyway! > [@](#): > > The interplay between emerging national oil companies, major oil producing countries and Western consumer countries will have a large impact on the question of energy security and stability of oil and gas markets, raising many questions. [http://www.rice.edu/energy/research/nationaloil/index.html](http://www.rice.edu/energy/research/nationaloil/index.html) Oil prices will go up and up and up! > [@](#): > > Saudi Arabia is the biggest oil producer in the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC). With one-fifth of the world’s proven oil reserves, some of the lowest production costs, and an aggressive energy sector investment initiative, Saudi Arabia is likely to remain the world’s largest net oil exporter. [http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Saudi\_Arabia/Background.html](http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Saudi_Arabia/Background.html) Canada, US, and Mexico have another one-fifth but with the highest production costs and zilch for an aggressive energy sector investment initiative. North America could become the worlds largest net oil exporter with some minor policy changes. > [@](#): > > EIA analysis of the petroleum market points to the cost of crude oil as the main contributor to the record high gasoline prices that we are now experiencing. > The cost of crude oil now accounts for almost 70% of the gasoline pump price. World crude oil prices are at record highs due mainly to high worldwide oil demand relative to supply. Other factors contributing to higher prices include political events and conflicts in some major oil producing regions, as well as other factors such as the declining value of the U.S. dollar (the currency at which crude oil is traded globally).[http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/ask/gasoline\_faqs.asp#gas\_prices](http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/ask/gasoline_faqs.asp#gas_prices) > [@](#): > > The United States consumed 20.7 million barrels per day (MMbd) of petroleum products during 2006 > Net imports of petroleum other than crude oil were 17% of the oil consumed in the United States during 2006. > almost 50% of U.S. crude oil and petroleum products imports came from the Western Hemisphere (North, South, and Central America and the Caribbean including U.S. territories) during 2006. > [http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energy\_in\_brief/foreign\_oil\_dependence.cfm](http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energy_in_brief/foreign_oil_dependence.cfm) > [@](#): > > Including the portion of oil sands reserves considered by government regulators to be producible at current prices using current technology, Canada’s proven oil reserves were estimated at 179 billion barrels (28×109 m3) as of 2007, placing it second only to Saudi Arabia.[16] > > In June, 2007 former U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan warned that declining oil production in Mexico could cause a major fiscal crisis there, and that Mexico needed to increase investment in its energy sector to prevent it.[50] > > If the United States had to supply its entire demand of 21 million barrels per day (3.3×106 m3/d) without resorting to foreign imports, existing US reserves would last only three years at the current rate of consumption. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil\_reserves](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves) Let’s here it for NAFTA. > [@](#): > > From 2000 to 2007 > crude oil…48% > Federal, State, and local government taxes … 24% > Refining costs and profits…16% > Distribution, marketing, and retail dealer costs and profits… 12% > > Refining costs and profits were about 17% of the national average retail price of regular gasoline in 2007, close to the 2000 to 2007 average of 16%. This component’s share varies from region to region mainly due to the different gasoline formulations required in different parts of the country. > … > World crude oil prices reached record levels in 2007 due mainly to high worldwide oil demand relative to supply. Other factors contributing to higher crude oil prices include political events and conflicts in some major oil producing regions, as well as other factors such as the declining value of the U.S. dollar (the currency at which crude oil is traded globally). [http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/gasolinepricesprimer/](http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/gasolinepricesprimer/) Oops, there is the apocalypse. Canada’s cheap crude is our salvation! Taxing profits is not. > [@](#): > > Total proved reserves of crude oil in the United States, as of year-end 2006, are 20.97 billion barrels > February 2008 5 largest states reserves > Texas, with 4.9 billion barrels > Alaska, with 3.9 billion barrels > California, with 3.4 billion barrels > Wyoming, with 706 million barrels > New Mexico, with 696 million barrels. > [http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/petroleumreserves.html](http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/petroleumreserves.html) > [@](#): > > An April 2008 USGS report estimated the amount of technically recoverable in the Bakken Formation at 3.0 to 4.3 billion barrels, with a mean of 3.65 billion.[2] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakken\_Formation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakken_Formation) > [@](#): > > Marathon Oil is investing $1.5 billion and drilling 300 new wells > > The US imported about 14 million barrels of Oil per day in 2007 , which means US consumers sent about $340 Billion Dollars over seas building palaces in Dubai and propping up unfriendly regimes around the World, if 200 billion barrels of oil at $90 a barrel are recovered in the high plains the added wealth to the US economy would be $18 Trillion Dollars which would go a long way in stabilizing the US trade deficit and could cut the cost of oil in half in the long run. [http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.13s.html](http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.13s.html) > [@](#): > > Texas-based Hyperion Resources requested the rezoning for the $10 billion refinery, billed as a potential step toward national energy independence. The proposal has been a contentious issue in the southeast corner of South Dakota, with supporters citing economic development benefits and opponents voicing environmental and quality-of-life concerns. > … > Hyperion’s next big hurdle is a lengthy air quality permit application being reviewed by the South Dakota Department of Environment and Natural Resources. > > Besides the permits, he said he doubted Hyperion could secure the financing for the refinery. > Quam, of the group Citizens Against Oil Pollution, said his organization was evaluating its next move. > [http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/04/sd\_county\_approves\_rezoning\_for\_new\_oil\_refinery/?rss\_id=Boston.com+--+Latest+news](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/04/sd_county_approves_rezoning_for_new_oil_refinery/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Latest+news) And before you go off and post the obvious review the following. All the dumb things have been said. [http://digg.com/business\_finance/S\_D\_county\_approves\_rezoning\_for\_new\_oil\_refinery](http://digg.com/business_finance/S_D_county_approves_rezoning_for_new_oil_refinery) **The Solution for the environment for gas prices for everything!** We have a near term (2 years) problem – fuel prices and balance of trade. We have a mid term (20 years) problem – nonrenewable resources We have a long term (40 years) problem – AGW The immediate two year problem is easy. I have been there and done that. Play it again Sam! [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_cagcBOLQ74](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cagcBOLQ74) > [@](#): > > natural gas reserves > US …5,451 Bm3 / 170 m3/barrel = 320 B boe > Canada…1603 Bm3 / 170 m3/barrel = 94 B boe > Mexico …420 Bm3 / 170 m3/barrel = 24 B boe > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural\_gas\_reserves](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_reserves) The US has 320 B barrels of oil equivalent of natural gas reserves which will last 41 years at current demand for automobiles. You can run your bar-b-que from same energy as your vehicle and price per gallon is cheap and by using our own resources we eliminate the trade imbalance and with a natural gas tax we could wipe out the US debt.. The pipeline distribution to households already exists, so infrastructure costs are minimal. We would phase out the ethanol boondoggle and return food prices to normal. We are keeping a lid on the Middle East with forces stationed in Saudi, Iraq, and Afghanistan so a middle east apocalypse is not likely. The 20 year problem is also easy. To ease the transition to renewable resources Canada has 179B barrels of oil reserves in tar sands to last 23 years at current US consumption. These oils require different refining and so thus the Marathon Oil refinery upgrades in Detroit and Ohio now being built and the new Hyperion Resources refining venture in S. Dakota is needed. We would relax some of the environmental hurdles to facilitate investment in these new infrastructures. The savings from the deficit and from the balance of trade leaves trillions of dollars to invest in renewable technologies. We would auction off the interstate medians and margins and have private companies build for profit, metro link extension to serve commuters, the largest consumers of gasoline. The 40 year problem is also so easy. > [@](#): > > 10 tenets of the new environmental apostasy > 1.Live in Cities: Urban Living Is Kinder to the Planet Than the Suburban Lifestyle > 2.A/C Is OK: Air-Conditioning Actually Emits Less C02 Than Heating > 3.Organics Are Not the Answer:Surprise! Conventional Agriculture Can Be Easier on the Planet > 4.Farm the Forests: Old-Growth Forests Can Actually Contribute to Global Warming > 5.China Is the Solution:The People’s Republic Leads the Way in Alternative-Energy Hardware > 6.Accept Genetic Engineering: Superefficient Frankencrops Could Put a Real Dent in Greenhouse Gas Emissions > \*\*7.Carbon Trading Doesn’t Work:Carbon Credits Were a Great Idea, But the Benefits Are Illusory \*\* > 8.Embrace Nuclear Power:Face It. Nukes Are the Most Climate-Friendly Industrial-Scale Form of Energy > 9.Used Cars-Not Hybrids: Don’t Buy That New Prius! Test-Drive a Used Car Instead > 10.Prepare for the Worst: Climate Change Is Inevitable. Get Used to It > [http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff\_heresies\_intro](http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff_heresies_intro) I disagree with item #1. Despite urban livings kindness to the Planet I think the urban living has done more harm to the human psyche than a direct and unbroken human interface with the natural world has done to the environment. I disagree with item #5. US home grown ingenuity will best serve our needs. We have the nuclear, the insulated concrete form, the ground source heat pump, the tankless hot water heater, the hybrid car, the passive and active solar technologies when coupled with a small business entrepreneurial mindset **the US has it made in the shade** and the rest of the world can come along for the ride. Better to take Stewart Brand’s advice from the opening page of the original Whole Earth Catalog: “We are as gods and might as well get good at it.” We’re in charge here. Let’s get to work. P.S. Don’t Panic! ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/2 "2008-06-10T22:40:10Z")
crazy much? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/3 "2008-06-10T22:49:51Z")
Not to be too critical, but this is _exactly_ the way I envision Dr Bronner would post in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/4 "2008-06-10T23:03:40Z")
WTF was that? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/5 "2008-06-10T23:11:46Z")
Did **Chicken Little** get a name change? ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/6 "2008-06-10T23:15:45Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] Not to be too critical, but this is _exactly_ the way I envision Dr Bronner would post in Great Debates. [/QUOTE] Not to be too critical, but this is _exactly_ the way I envision an Obamatron would post in Great Debates! I am not the stoner Dr Bronner nor am I an closed minded Obamatron just a ‘rapid changer’ out to do some good! ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/7 "2008-06-10T23:20:14Z")
Okay, so…what do you _want_ from us? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/8 "2008-06-10T23:34:31Z")
Do you have a fish called [Eric](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnq96W9jtuw)? ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/9 "2008-06-10T23:37:31Z")
[QUOTE=Duck Duck Goose] Okay, so…what do you _want_ from us? [/QUOTE] Pick apart the solution that was proposed and the conclusions on which I based those solutions. Why sit around on our asses until the November elections and await salvation from some dumb fuck politicians. Petition those politicians with cogent rational solutions like those proposed. Tell them what we want done not what they in their ivory towers think needs to be done. Each of you can individually do something now to save on fuel costs! See [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_cagcBOLQ74](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cagcBOLQ74) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/10 "2008-06-10T23:37:35Z")
Shorter version: The free market will solve all our problems! We should cut taxes and reduce regulation so the free market can solve all our problems faster! Obama is teh suck! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/11 "2008-06-10T23:47:30Z")
[QUOTE=focusonz] Petition those politicians with cogent rational solutions like those proposed. [/QUOTE] This word “cogent,” it does not mean what you think it does. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/12 "2008-06-10T23:51:26Z")
In polite society one is expected to have an ordered, rational argument before asking for comment. Plz try again, kthxbi! ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/13 "2008-06-11T00:03:46Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Shorter version: The free market will solve all our problems! We should cut taxes and reduce regulation so the free market can solve all our problems faster! [/QUOTE] Certainly faster than socialism and Marxism which are the implied alternative, both failed institutions found in the dung heap of history, which is assumed can be resurrected in a new an improved 21st century version to solve all our problems with less than 80 year plans directed from the politburo and dissenters given escort to the red state gulags. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/14 "2008-06-11T00:05:59Z")
Oh no! He knows about the planned red state gulags! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/15 "2008-06-11T00:09:57Z")
[QUOTE=focusonz] Certainly faster than socialism and Marxism which are the implied alternative, both failed institutions found in the dung heap of history, which is assumed can be resurrected in a new an improved 21st century version to solve all our problems with less than 80 year plans directed from the politburo and dissenters given escort to the red state gulags. [/QUOTE] Strawman. Who is asking for a switch to socialism? The real answer to all the world’s problems is not believing in absolutes. The market can fix a lot, what it can’t fix, the government has to. They need to be used together. And anyone who believes that a market utterly without regulation is the \*only \*answer just simply isn’t thinking very hard. Also, could you please re-write the OP so that it is clear? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/16 "2008-06-11T00:10:07Z")
[QUOTE=focusonz] Pick apart the solution that was proposed and the conclusions on which I based those solutions. [/QUOTE] K. Sooooo…I’m reading the list of 10 Things To Do To Save The Planet From Global Warming from your [Wired.com](http://Wired.com) article, and then I get to #10, "Climate Change Is Inevitable. Get Used to It ". And I basically go, WTF. If we’re just supposed to get used to global warming, why should we bother, in the first place, to move back to the cities, use GM food, ignore the Prius, etc.? Basic logic slump there. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/17 "2008-06-11T00:11:02Z")
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] Oh no! He knows about the planned red state gulags! [/QUOTE] They aren’t gulags, those are… er… happy fun camps! You like fun don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/18 "2008-06-11T00:17:25Z")
It seems to me that the novel you just posted could be summarized into “Step 3: A Miracle Occurs.” ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/19 "2008-06-11T00:19:10Z")
[QUOTE=Duck Duck Goose] K. Sooooo…I’m reading the list of 10 Things To Do To Save The Planet From Global Warming from your [Wired.com](http://Wired.com) article, and then I get to #10, "Climate Change Is Inevitable. Get Used to It ". And I basically go, WTF. If we’re just supposed to get used to global warming, why should we bother, in the first place, to move back to the cities, use GM food, ignore the Prius, etc.? Basic logic slump there. [/QUOTE] I am sorry I should have put links on each of those 10 points. See the article [http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff\_heresies\_intro](http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff_heresies_intro) but here is excerpt from Point #10 > [@](#): > > The awful truth is that some amount of climate change is a foregone conclusion. The Electric Power Research Institute in Palo Alto, California, calculates that even if the US, Europe, and Japan turned off every power plant and mothballed every car today, atmospheric CO2 would still climb from the current 380 parts per million to a perilous 450 ppm by 2070, thanks to contributions from China and India. (Do nothing and we’ll get there by 2040.) In short, we’re already at least lightly browned toast. It’s time to think about adapting to a warmer planet. > [http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff\_heresies\_10worst](http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff_heresies_10worst) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504/20 "2008-06-11T00:21:13Z")
[QUOTE=focusonz] Certainly faster than socialism and Marxism which are the implied alternative, both failed institutions found in the dung heap of history … . [/QUOTE] Who’s proposing socialism or communism? Government regulation does not equal automatic Marxism. :rolleyes: I’ll remind you that socialism and communism were originally proposed as correctives to **unfettered free enterprise** , which has likewise been consigned to the dung heap of history. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coolest-winter-since-2001-us-oil-reserves-middle-east-apocalypse-no-gas-in-3-years/452504.md?page=2)