# Cop Confronts Unarmed Black Guy at Traffic Stop … **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 13, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765 "2015-08-13T20:01:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/1 "2015-08-13T20:01:42Z")
[Man charged in Birmingham detective’s beating; outrage follows support of attack on social media](http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2015/08/suspect_with_violent_past_char.html) > [@](#): > > It all began just after 11 a.m. Friday when the detective, in plain clothes and an unmarked car, stopped a maroon 2012 GMC Yukon in the 9100 block of Parkway East in the Roebuck Plaza, possibly in connection with some burglaries in the area. He approached the vehicle, and told the suspect to stay in the SUV while he waited for a marked unit for backup. > > Cunningham got out of the vehicle despite the officer’s demands, and began to question the detective about why he was being stopped. A tussle followed and the suspect assaulted hit the detective in the head with his own weapon. > [@](#): > > Not long after the attack, photos began to surface on social media showing the detective lying face down on the pavement. Another photo showed him bloody and kneeling, but awake. In some cases on Facebook, the photos were accompanied by words of support for whoever beat the detective. > [@](#): > > Boackle said officers everywhere are hesitant, given the national climate. "There is a saying that ‘he who hesitates is lost’ and that’s why (the detective) lost, because he hesitated,‘’ Boackle said. “If the officers on the streets were not in fear of losing their jobs, it wouldn’t have gotten to the point it did yesterday. Officers are second-guessing every move because they’re afraid they’re going to be judged, by the media and by the public.” > > "If the officer would have shot him, then he would have shot an ‘unarmed man.’ Instead, he took the gun from the officer,‘’ Boackle said of Friday’s incident. “The officer had every right to shoot him. We’re lucky we’re not talking about him killing the officer.” Stories like this don’t seem to get much national attention – this is on a few relatively obscure sites, but that’s about it. But it’s worth bearing in mind that “unarmed guy at traffic stop” does not necessarily equal harmless guy. And it’s also worth noting the climate of antipathy to cops, which is probably also not helpful. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/2 "2015-08-13T20:15:10Z")
Let’s just forget all the ways this has nothing to do with cops killing innocent people and take a look at it. Why did the cop stop this car? He’s a detective not a traffic cop, did he identify the car as being related to a case he was working on, or did he just see the wrong kind of person driving a good car? What happened in that scuffle? We don’t know what happened, maybe the detective got the worst of it, but he might have started it, the guy could have been defending himself. And once again we’ll hear about how this guy was a violent criminal, but did the detective know that? And besides all that, hesitant to do what? To shoot people who haven’t done anything? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/3 "2015-08-13T20:15:25Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [Man charged in Birmingham detective’s beating; outrage follows support of attack on social media](http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2015/08/suspect_with_violent_past_char.html) > Stories like this don’t seem to get much national attention – this is on a few relatively obscure sites, but that’s about it. But it’s worth bearing in mind that “unarmed guy at traffic stop” does not necessarily equal harmless guy. And it’s also worth noting the climate of antipathy to cops, which is probably also not helpful. NOPE, those with power always are held to a higher standard, always. Don’t try to argue the driver had greater power, he just caught someone off guard with his insane behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/4 "2015-08-13T20:15:31Z")
What was the stop and the detaining the subject inside his SUV for and was it legal? Perhaps it was since they were looking for a suspect, IDK. Much of the problem we seem to be having with officers is they are and have been doing things illegal and until recently getting away with it. So this question is the same, and perhaps the same situation which would be a police officer going beyond what the law allows. The difference is this time the officer is the one worse for wear. Also just curious if the local police would do this for anyone injured: > [@](#): > > The detective was rushed to UAB Hospital, \*\*with police blocking off downtown intersections \*\*to make way for the detective’s arrival via ambulance. That does sound like a privileged class to me, and a possible abuse of power, unless everyone gets this treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/5 "2015-08-13T20:51:30Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Let’s just forget all the ways this has nothing to do with cops killing innocent people and take a look at it. Why did the cop stop this car? He’s a detective not a traffic cop, did he identify the car as being related to a case he was working on, or did he just see the wrong kind of person driving a good car? What happened in that scuffle? We don’t know what happened, maybe the detective got the worst of it, but he might have started it, the guy could have been defending himself. And once again we’ll hear about how this guy was a violent criminal, but did the detective know that? I’m not sure what your first sentence means in the context of the rest of this paragraph. I don’t know the answers these questions, though in general my money is on the cop versus the career criminal. But the important point here is that “unarmed guy” doesn’t mean “not dangerous guy” as people tend to assume. > [@](#): > > And besides all that, hesitant to do what? To shoot people who haven’t done anything? To shoot people who are acting dangerously. Though it should be noted that we don’t really know that the cop was too hesitant and this seems to be just the supposition of the FOP guy. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/6 "2015-08-13T21:09:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not sure what your first sentence means in the context of the rest of this paragraph. I mean that dangerous people attacking cops is no justification for cops detaining, arresting, harassing, beating, or killing innocent people. > [@](#): > > I don’t know the answers these questions, though in general my money is on the cop versus the career criminal. But the important point here is that “unarmed guy” doesn’t mean “not dangerous guy” as people tend to assume. Right, so any unarmed person could be dangerous so cops shouldn’t hesitate to shoot them. > [@](#): > > To shoot people who are acting dangerously. I’ll shoot anyone I see getting out of car because they are so dangerous. But maybe when I see a dangerous person I should approach them first because that will make them less dangerous. > [@](#): > > Though it should be noted that we don’t really know that the cop was too hesitant and this seems to be just the supposition of the FOP guy. Well this is really it isn’t it? We don’t know what happened. This guy was dangerous, the detective may have been doing his job properly and this guy deserves what he’s going to get when they catch him. I’ve been playing devil’s advocate to your OP, when all the facts are out we can evaluate without so much speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/7 "2015-08-13T21:13:30Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Well this is really it isn’t it? We don’t know what happened. This guy was dangerous, the detective may have been doing his job properly and this guy deserves what he’s going to get when they catch him. I’ve been playing devil’s advocate to your OP, when all the facts are out we can evaluate without so much speculation. Right, but one thing we already know is that an unarmed guy almost killed an armed cop. That much we know. So therefore, you can’t make too much of the mere fact that a guy was unarmed in other cases, since such people can be very dangerous, and might have been in a given instance. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/8 "2015-08-13T21:13:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Let’s just forget all the ways this has nothing to do with cops killing innocent people and take a look at it. Why did the cop stop this car? He’s a detective not a traffic cop, did he identify the car as being related to a case he was working on, or did he just see the wrong kind of person driving a good car? What happened in that scuffle? We don’t know what happened, maybe the detective got the worst of it, but he might have started it, the guy could have been defending himself. And once again we’ll hear about how this guy was a violent criminal, but did the detective know that? > > And besides all that, hesitant to do what? To shoot people who haven’t done anything? Hey Tripolar, how you doing, hope you are having a good day… My question to you, is, even though all your points are relevant, this question is equally relevant: What would of happened if the suspect had stayed in the car as instructed? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/9 "2015-08-13T21:14:00Z")
Somebody committed an act of violence and was arrested and charged with a crime. This is what should happen. I don’t see why there should be an expectation of any significant public outcry over this. Now if somebody had committed a violent act or even killed another person and then not been charged with any crime - that’s when the system would appear to have broken down and you’d see public outrage. As for whatever support this guy is getting, you’re always going to have some idiots who can’t see the reality of a situation. They just blindly support the guy who looks more like they do over the guy who looks less like they do. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/10 "2015-08-13T21:22:56Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > That does sound like a privileged class to me, and a possible abuse of power, unless everyone gets this treatment. FWIW the police have done that over here (UK) for civilians, usually when there’s a time-critical organ transplant involved. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/11 "2015-08-13T21:26:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Somebody committed an act of violence and was arrested and charged with a crime. This is what should happen. I don’t see why there should be an expectation of any significant public outcry over this. > > … I think those who cry the loudest won’t be happy until there is a change to the code of criminal procedure. Something about minorities being exempt from policing regardless of probably cause or reasonable suspicion on the part of the officer. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/12 "2015-08-13T21:27:44Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Hey Tripolar, how you doing, hope you are having a good day… > > My question to you, is, even though all your points are relevant, this question is equally relevant: > > What would of happened if the suspect had stayed in the car as instructed? Who am I, Kreskin? I have no idea what would have happened. Maybe nothing, maybe the same thing, maybe something worse. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/13 "2015-08-13T21:28:49Z")
The word “Unarmed” is fairly useless, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/14 "2015-08-13T21:46:32Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > The word “Unarmed” is fairly useless, in my opinion. It means no arms AKA weapons, doesn’t helpless or harmless. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/15 "2015-08-13T21:47:33Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I think those who cry the loudest won’t be happy until there is a change to the code of criminal procedure. Something about minorities being exempt from policing regardless of probably cause or reasonable suspicion on the part of the officer. Sure, an exemption only for minorities. You have summed up the argument perfectly! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/16 "2015-08-13T22:16:09Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I think those who cry the loudest won’t be happy until there is a change to the code of criminal procedure. Something about minorities being exempt from policing regardless of probably cause or reasonable suspicion on the part of the officer. And here we go. Exhibit #34,0351,843 on why we can’t have nice things. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/17 "2015-08-13T23:10:26Z")
Implied in the op is an obvious allusion to the recently witnessed unarmed Black man being shot by the police stories so popular today. It sucks that the cop got beat. It sucks even more that he got beat so bad. The guy doing the beating is going to be convicted of that. No doubt. The certainty of police facing justice with the recent evil racist cop examples is, of course, not nearly so obvious. “Cunningham is charged in the beating of a detective who is a six-year veteran of the force. Authorities said Cunningham stole the detective’s gun and then repeatedly hit him in the head until the detective stopped moving.” Is that the only charge? I mean, he should be charged with that! But I wonder how come he isn’t being charged with whatever got him pulled over in the first place. Yes, I certainly wonder about that. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/18 "2015-08-13T23:14:23Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Right, but one thing we already know is that an unarmed guy almost killed an armed cop. That much we know. Bullshit. Total and complete bullshit. “Almost killed” my ass. The cop didn’t even stay in the hospital overnight for observation. They stuck a couple of bandaids on his boo-boos and sent him home. Was the bad guy a “bad guy?” Sure looks like it. But let’s not overstate the extent to which the cop got his ass kicked. Plainclothes cop in an unmarked car? He’s lucky an upstanding white citizen didn’t shoot him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/19 "2015-08-14T00:18:21Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I think those who cry the loudest won’t be happy until there is a change to the code of criminal procedure. Something about minorities being exempt from policing regardless of probably cause or reasonable suspicion on the part of the officer. Nonsense. What people want is for the police to treat minorities the same way the police treat white people. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765/20 "2015-08-14T01:47:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But the important point here is that “unarmed guy” doesn’t mean “not dangerous guy” as people tend to assume. No, it’s not. Because the fact that unarmed people can be dangerous is fucking obvious. No one ever argues that they can’t be dangerous, just that you don’t need to actually shoot them until they’re actually doing something that is dangerous. Plus the fact that you don’t deliberately put yourself in a dangerous situation so you can justify a shooting when you have other alternatives. This hasn’t caught on because it’s not particularly newsworthy, except to those who wish to try and use it as a counterargument to those who say cops are too quick to shoot people. Without the hesitation element, which you admit is just an opinion, this isn’t even remarkable. The only thing that makes this possibly interesting is in determining if there was something the cop could have done but didn’t to prevent this. But, since we have so few facts, this is not yet possible. When we get more information, maybe it will be newsworthy outside the local area. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-confronts-unarmed-black-guy-at-traffic-stop/727765.md?page=2)