# Cop shoot, kills teen after he skips out on check at IHOP **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478 "2006-02-28T17:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/301 "2006-06-14T15:15:23Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’d like to see the complete report, including ballistic evidence and all witness statements, but i’m not sure if that stuff is available to the public. The report is the last link of **nyctea scandiaca** ’s post. > [@D\_Odds](#): > > So, is this cops covering for cops, police malfeasance at all levels, or an accurate account of the happenings that night. Sounds like we’re unlikely to really find out. I wish police nationwide would realize that the “Blue Wall of Silence” does them a greater disservice than service. “Blue Wall of Silence” != releasing a 54-page report to the public. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/302 "2006-06-14T15:32:28Z")
Interesting how many of those who think that the police officer was wrong use the term “kid” to apply to the adult victim. Technically, he was a “teen”, yes, but certainly an adult, not a “kid”. Next, the shooting was not because of the pancakes. Please don’t say that the cop shot the young adult over some pancakes. The off-duty police officer, acting as security for the Pancake house went to confront patrons who left without paying. I can’t see anyone having a problem with that. Does anyone think that Security should not confront patrons who leave without paying? Then, when he confronted them, the driver did something very very stupid, which caused an unfortuntate chain of events, where the police officer acted hastily- which was the only way he could act. I am not saying the cop acted in the best way. But let us not twist the truth. The victim was an adult, not a “kid”. The shooting was not over an unpaid pancake bill. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/303 "2006-06-14T15:42:16Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > The report is the last link of **nyctea scandiaca** ’s post. Thanks. I missed that while i was writing my last post. Having read the witness statements and the physical evidence report, as well as the officer statement and the case analysis and conclusion, i really think that this was the only possible outcome. I’m not saying that the officer has been proven to have done the right thing, only that, given the evidence available, it seems completely unreasonable to expect the Commonwealth’s Attorney to prosecute. Some of the witness accounts support the officer’s version of events, and other witnesses changed their story between the first interview and the second one. The analysis of the firearm trajectory also suggests that the cop was close to and in front of the car when firing began—maybe not directly in front, but close enough that if the vehicle were turning towards him he wold have been in fear for his life. And the shots were all from distances of between 9 and 46 feet, which isn’t very far away if the vehicle is moving at about 25mph, which is what the reenactments determined as its approximate speed. 25mph is about 36 feet per second, meaning that even at the outer extremity of these distances, the officer was only about 1.3 seconds from being hit if the car was headed in his direction. After reading all this, and the rest of the report, i have to rethink my initial response, which was that the officer had acted recklessly. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/304 "2006-06-14T15:48:27Z")
Ooh, I’m so glad this thread got bumped, because I couldn’t do this before. > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Anyways, either way, I’m alive and well because I’m not a degenerate scumbag who runs from police, and Aaron Brown is dead because he is. Hmm. You really enjoy making that point, don’t you? You like it so much, you Phelpsed it right in the face of someone in mourning. And then when people moved away from it, you made sure to bring attention back to it. Didn’t you, you fucking **TROLL?** You’re trollier than when Troll came to Trolltown. No one who has the morals and values you claim to have would also be so indecent as to insult someone in mourning **unless they were putting on a show** , and they definitely wouldn’t sit around hammering the point for several pages, even if they defended their right to hold it. You know what that makes you, right? Of course you do. A troll. And one who is starting to look pretty sad & desperate, because most of us are either on to you or tired of your schtick anyway. What’s next, going to start picketing servicemens’ funerals? Going to proclaim that the KKK has a few good ideas? Keep scraping that barrel, buddy, and one day you’ll find out it was your soul all along. There will be nothing left inside you but a hole. Food will turn to ash in your mouth, your bed will be as ice, your eyes will fill with burning sand, I’m talking serious bad mojo, my friend. But you’re probably already too empty to care. This is not news to most people, and it’s not something I normally even think about, let alone make a habit of calling people out on. But oh man does it feel gooooood. That the officer may have acted properly doesn’t change the fact that this a tragedy, as every human being in this thread has acknowledged. Thank you to those who took the time to keep us updated. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/305 "2006-06-14T15:56:18Z")
Also, in case anyone missed it, I just got finished reading to the end of the report on the Post’s Web site, and they have a link to PDF version of the report, which includes photos of the scene (which, IMO, provide a much-needed sense of scale), photos of the Jeep, and diagrams. [PDF of report](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/daily/061306/investigation.pdf) (Warning: PDF. Duh.) ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/306 "2006-06-14T16:23:44Z")
According to this report: [http://wusatv9.com/news/news\_article.aspx?storyid=50115](http://wusatv9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=50115) cited above, this is what one of the passengers said about the investigation: “They only want the facts. They really don’t listen to you. They try to protect their own, of course.” Well, um, wanting the facts doesn’t seem like a bad thing… ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/307 "2006-06-14T16:26:40Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > “Blue Wall of Silence” != releasing a 54-page report to the public. No, “Blue Wall of Silence” = releasing a 54-page report that exonerates the officer to the public. It could be a totally honest assessment, or they could have circled the wagons and done everything possible to portray the evidence in such a way that the officer is exonerated. My point is that you can never be sure which we, the public, are receiving. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/308 "2006-06-14T17:39:32Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > My point is that you can never be sure which we, the public, are receiving. How can you ever be sure? I’m not sure I understand the problem in this case. The report goes into pretty deep detail about the evidence and facts. What do you propose they could do to assure the public in this case? ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/309 "2006-06-14T19:45:48Z")
[http://wusatv9.com/news/news\_article.aspx?storyid=50115](http://wusatv9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=50115) > [@](#): > > Adam Daughtrey says he does plan to file a civil suit against Officer Stowe… I don’t think so. You’ve suffered no damages. Perhaps you are looking for a payday? ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/310 "2006-06-14T20:01:58Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > One can only hope that cop will be absolutely ruined by the upcoming lawsuits. If any lawsuits arise, they certainly won’t be against the police officer. And since he’s already been exhonerated criminally, I really don’t see how he can or will be ruined. The only possible lawsuit that exists here is a wrongful death which would be brought by the immediate family members of the deceased. But I wonder very much who would take on their claim when the people wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/311 "2006-06-14T20:56:21Z")
Is it just me, or does 25 mph in an IHOP parking lot (or any parking lot) sound a tad excessive? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/312 "2006-06-14T21:13:57Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > How can you ever be sure? I’m not sure I understand the problem in this case. The report goes into pretty deep detail about the evidence and facts. What do you propose they could do to assure the public in this case? I don’t pretend to speak for the public. I speak for me. No amount of reports in this case will assuage my paranoia because the PD circled wagons at the beginning. If a PD is at all concerned about assuring me (highly unlikely), the investigations will be open and public from the start, and the officers will be treated exactly as any other suspect in a similar situation. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/313 "2006-06-14T21:47:45Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Is it just me, or does 25 mph in an IHOP parking lot (or any parking lot) sound a tad excessive? It’s a tough parking lot to go that fast in even. Very tight area with people constantly pulling in and out. It’s a popular place for late night fender benders. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/314 "2006-06-14T22:59:01Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > Blah, blah, Martin you suck, blah, blah, blah You might not like Martin, but the line you quoted from him is dead spot on. I did a lot of foolish and illegal stuff when I was 18-20-something years old, if I’d gotten my fool head blown off by a police officer while trying to run him down, I’d have deserved it too. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/315 "2006-06-14T23:30:13Z")
If you open the PDF linked upthread, scroll down to the pictures and diagrams. I think they start at about page 46 or so. Look at where the driver of the car says the cop was standing. Then look at where the shell casings were recovered. Not in the same place. Then look at where the driver (2nd interview, he changed his story) says the Jeep was, and then sroll down to the pics of the shell holes in the Jeep. The second shell hole to be exact. It is clearly fired from off to the driver’s side of the Jeep, slightly infront or about even with the front bumper. The bullet left a groove in the hood. Now go back and look at where the driver says the car was and where the cop was standing. No fucking way could the car and the cop be where the driver said they were. You do not need to be a CSI expert from Las Vegas (or play one on TV) to see that the kid is lying through his teeth, trying to cover his sorry ass. The cop was standing in the middle of where the shell casing were found, and the Jeep swerved toward him. He fired in self defense. How do I know the Jeep swerved to the left? Duh, it hit what four cars on that side of the parking lot? It sure as hell did not swerve right. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/316 "2006-06-14T23:50:52Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > According to this report: [404 Not Found | wusa9.com](http://wusatv9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=50115) cited above, this is what one of the passengers said about the investigation: > “They only want the facts. They really don’t listen to you. They try to protect their own, of course.” > Well, um, wanting the facts doesn’t seem like a bad thing… Hey hey hey, dont start confusing people with the facts. I mean, let’s let emotion, gut feeling, prejudice and hatred guide our actions. Those fucking pieces of shit who want “only facts” disgust me. They always want to muddy the waters with their convenient " truth". I mean, all government employees are horrible, evil villains. We know this because we feel it. So, don’t ever presume to expose facts to me because I will not be swayed by your “college” degrees, analysis, scientific evidence and unbiased third party witness accounts. Damn intellectuals, think that fucking facts and “knowledge” are all that matters. I know what I feel, I know what I feel, that’s all that matters. Say it with me. I know what I feel, I know what I feel, that’s all that matters… ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/317 "2006-06-14T23:54:34Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I don’t pretend to speak for the public. I speak for me. No amount of reports in this case will assuage my paranoia because the PD circled wagons at the beginning. If a PD is at all concerned about assuring me (highly unlikely), the investigations will be open and public from the start, and the officers will be treated exactly as any other suspect in a similar situation. The PD and other government entities only have to “circle the wagons” because the rabid, vulturous, ignorant fucks come out of the wood work and immediately assume the worse in any situation. I will be the first one to call for openness in government. Look at my posts. I cannot stand “spin”, but for God’s sake, this report looks pretty damn thorough. Are you really suggesting a conspiracy that includes 100’s of fucking people? Say the mantra: I know what I feel, I know what I feel… ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/318 "2006-06-15T00:00:24Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > You might not like Martin, but the line you quoted from him is dead spot on. I did a lot of foolish and illegal stuff when I was 18-20-something years old, if I’d gotten my fool head blown off by a police officer while trying to run him down, I’d have deserved it too. HEY MORON, THE DRIVER WASN’T THE ONE KILLED. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/319 "2006-06-15T00:10:15Z")
Spraying bullets at the windows of a moving vehicle is a pretty stupid thing to do, unless you don’t care that the driver might die with his foot on the accelerator and not be able to steer. IN A DENSELY POPULATED PARKING LOT. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/320 "2006-06-15T00:13:58Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > Spraying bullets at the windows of a moving vehicle is a pretty stupid thing to do, unless you don’t care that the driver might die with his foot on the accelerator and not be able to steer. > > IN A DENSELY POPULATED PARKING LOT. :mad: Driving your vehicle at a person in a densely populated parking lot, when your vehicle has your innocent friends in it is “a pretty stupid thing to do.” But kids are stupid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478.md?page=17)